General

I find myself in a similar position to the four years of fun formerly known as high school. Having chosen to enter the forums again and taken the same stance I tend to, as it turns out my opinion is far less acceptable to FF's body. My temper having slipped finally, it seems high time I draw this matter to its end and vanish for a while.
From what I've gathered in reading and studying the threads on attraction and their subsiquent divergence into the mechanics of relationships, it is the standing fact of this site's main body that relationships are first and foremost centered on sex, with any sort of emotional or sentimental components being mere pretext or justification. Science having already laid clear biochemestry and mechanics something to that effect, fine, I'll concede that point fully.
"Nice" being a personality type that has been sighted for being both a sign of sexual ineptitude, incapacity, or general failure with the fairer sex, I at least wish to see if any will concede that point that for however pathetic in romantic affairs, they are necessary to keep the world running.
With their political correctness and overall easily tolerable personalities, "nice" or "normal" people act as the grease or berrings; furthermore, for however little it[personality] may be of value in the sack, I would still argue that the general traits implied with a "nice" personality are easiest to co-exist with between romantic interludes.
Does anyone agree with me now?

If you have to tell someone how nice of a person you are, you aren't one.

Listen, if you're a nice person then be a nice person. Don't let stupid people who confuse kindness with weakness and douchebaggery with confidence keep you from doing what you think is right. Those idiots will get what they go for.

Being a good person isn't a sneaky tactic either, what the hell is wrong with you people? Of course there's more to a relationship than sex and guys can feel lonely, not just horny so of course they'll speak out in regards to it from dispondance

And I'm sure just what they need is more stuff knocking them down. But if the rest of you hear a guy complaining he can't meet anyone, it's because he's not interested in you and it doesn't matter to him how unattractive you find it.

yeesh this forum.

And here is where the road cross-sects. I placed definition in the title for a reason, that being, as in high school and occaisionally at the college, I'm trying to discern how you lot[the FF member body] defines the general personality type of nice; I suffer from no dillusions of grandure. As Okapi has kindly pointed out, I'm not that good, amongst a fair range of things, posting without coming of as condesending; therefore, please let me expound and clarify and if the purpose of my inquiry is still unclear or simply unanswerable after that, then fine, so is life.
First off, I'd hope that as most of you have more years under your belts than me, you've all been able to note that despite the infinite differencation of each person's personality there are still general types. The athlete, the quiet one, the shy one, the hot one, the nice one, etcetera etcetera; yes, it sounds like breaking down high school clicks, but having obsereved the same sort of structure at my work place and occasionally abroad either it's a strange coincidence or the pattern doesn't end when you get your diploma. Of this I've obsereved that the personality type of nice-defined by a lack of self-concern, work ethic without any real incentive or chance of advancement, and a generally couteous or kind demeanor, tends to be the one who is first to be kicked under the bus and the last to be pulled out of the fire despite everyone's love or admiration for working with them; hence why I find "indisctiminently nice" a more apt naming for it. Then you have me, not nice, just with similar qualities that exist to a fault out of some sense of social appropriacy; I say that with every attempt not to sound like I do it as a disguise or with some sort of alterior motive. When it came to getting along with co-workers and mental health patients, that was just the easiest way to do things; the label of "nice" just stuck like every other time before I came to the conclusion the best way to co-exist was to act as such. It doesn't mean I have no personality bleeding through, it simply means that "faulted nice" as classified is more of a survival strategy then outright type.
Now what I'd like to here, please[?], is similarly geared notings that you lot have made.
Oh, and to the address that I'm bitching, no, not really. I've always been single and to be frank I find it kind of better when I compare to what all my bound buddies have to deal with; I don't swing mind you, but I get to keep the extra on my check instead of having to impress someone with it.

Sweetie, you're SO young. I know you don't feel it, but 20 is such early days. The world stops looking like high school by the time you're 30, and hopefully quite a bit before that. The cliques drop away. All of that changes.

And nice guys don't always get ignored. I married one, and we've been together for 24 years. I know lots of nice guys with partners they think are hot. Kind, thoughtful, supportive men end up partnered.

It is, however, true that self-pity is unattractive, *even when you've earned it*. I'm not commenting on whether or not you have the right to feel as you do, or whether or not I would feel as you do in your shoes. It's simply not the point. You can ask what you can do to make yourself more appealing (though it's dangerous, because you have to be willing to take the hits), but it's never a good idea to say 'It really sucks being someone like me because nobody likes us.' Just doesn't work.

If you look at your dating ad, for example, it talks about having been burned. Bad plan--no doubt true, but not a good sell. The section on your ideal match starts out with 'Not here seeking, not here against the idea.' Definitely not inspiring.

Your original question was if nice guys have any use. My answer? Yes, *including* in bed, but across all of life. In your second post, you say you aren't really a 'nice' guy, you've just developed that style through circumstances. Well, maybe it's time to peel away those habits and find out who you are. Then be him, and see how he works out for you.

For the record, I have turned what was once self-pity into mild self-depreciating humor with some success (as far as I can tell). And a sense of humor is fairly attractive.

Moral of the story: Turn your disadvantages to your advantage as best you can. It might not always work out for the best, but it's a useful skill.

Okay, from that last round of comments I can only surmise that the answer to my inquiries is as follows: in the eyes of the FF community-as drawn from members thus far spoken, there is no true definition of "nice"; acceptable. Furthermore, as to the concensus on it seems to be that my general set of traits is accurate, the jerk angle is discredited by more senior members who by experience over rule there lack there of; awesome.
To Edit: fair point; like in life, he who yells loudest rarely speaks for more than the loudest. I will continue to read-up on my fellow FF's to get a better feel for the group before doing this again.
To Juicy: thank you for finally giving what constitutes the closest to a straight answer along with your words of wisdom. If possible though, I would like to kindly point out you've miss read me: I don't really feel any sort of self pity. When I say I got burnt it's cyber-literal; the last site that was my forum hub I made some enemies, pissed off a moderator somehow who thus gave them a card blanc to message me in a not so tactful manor out of discussion, and chose to leave rather than see who else I could enrage. As to what I did to earn their wrath, no clue really; any argument I won was on hard facts and occasionally snarking in the right places. Either way, being on FF now I figured it was fair to throw out there as it's never been in my skill set, filling out dating cards that is. Same with "not seeking"; while intelectually I like to be as well informed as possible-hence the trove knowledge illuded to on biochemestry and such, otherwise I find going with the flow a much easier philosophy to live by. It's worked so far in everything else for the most part, so I figure that romance eventually falls into place to, right?
To Nomoreskinnygirl: Technically, if you count that not-really-a-date test date, I've been out a time or two; there's just this tendancy afterwards for them to leave it at something to the effect of, "I had a great time, but I just can't see myself dating a guy like you at this point." Going with the flow of it, I don't see the argument to be made against, but I figured that some people count those as dates even if I don't. Oddly, I've noticed that pets and older homosexual men have a strange draw to me, so I guess I can kind of understand the phenomenum you're sighting about you husband.
Thank you everyone else who I didn't address specifically; having drawn my conclusions and a valuable insights on further scoping out the FF community and thread presentation for future bits similar to this, however it deviated from my origional intent I suppose it's good that you all aren't as analytically geared as me; a refresher round of view points is always beneficial to debate. And thanks on the quote Spine; randomness of post totally appreciable.

Being nice is a social crutch. People are nice in the hopes that other people will treat them nice. I guess their afraid of harsh reactions. They'll get them any way, they should learn to be themselves from the start. I try to be an *** every now and then to improve the social situation here. you guys should thank me.

Being nice and being a "pushover" are two different things. Being nice is treating soemone with respect, while being a pushover is letting someone walk on you, which indicates no confidence or subservient personality. When women say that a man is "too nice", it's a codeword for "he's a pussy."

Only two points to make:
1) I'm no pushover; something to the affect of what has been pointed out about other broader social groups having thier positive attributes to be learned from, I've selectively chosen to emulate a few of their characteristics. I would distinguish my "me"-hobbies and all, though not really too public a matter. Kendo, Bo Staff, Hiking, and Photograpy are obvious while other pursuits such as reading, writing, sketch work [what the hell, this is FF anywho] tend to actually keep private even when done in public as they draw little to no attention.
2) I'm have a personality and it's fairly prominent, just selectively put on display. At work, in public, and at quiter family gatherings "nice, smart, etcetera etcetera" are the norm; party night the Rokkukashu comes out to play. There's a reason the mantra of the mullet is, "buisness in the front, party in the back" afterall.
Not really calling it a point further, but having drawn my concensus now you guys can stop posting at anytime; my inner analytical has been most throughly satisfied by now.