Chill. You know those slim muscular guys? They're not all funny or good company. See that hot ripped fella? He's really bad at sex and his breath smells.

No-one is perfect. I'd say that being awesome, fun, witty, blah blah is the best bet for finding someone who, long-term, will suit you. Because the buff skinny guys might not stay that way but your personality will.

You might find that because your body shape isn't necessarily "lowest common denominator" that it takes you a wee bit longer to find the right woman, but that just means you gotta look beyond the obvious/superficial too. I'm not trying to kid you that this isn't a numbers game - of course it's true that the conventionally muscular/slim guys are going to get a higher hit rate (for boring societal reasons that we don't need to go into - it's not right, but it IS a fact). Be patient, keep looking, don't give up. You have so many things going for you.

If you can, learn to be happy with yourself and people will warm to you for that. As you get older you come to an acceptance of yourself - not "giving in" but an appreciation that you have plenty of good qualities and attractive aspects (physical and otherwise) that you can really work with. WORK IT!

Plus you wouldn't be human if you didn't have a little self-doubt. I personally prefer it to the arrogance of those who feel entitled by dint of their perceived awesomeness. Introspection and feelings of inadequacy made a career for Morrissey

So even if the guy who started this thread IS ridiculously good-looking, is there anything in the points he makes? That good looking people have a harder time if they fancy fatties, or have a harder time if they want to gain weight?

Seems to me the answer is only if they're elevating the value of how other people react to their looks/the pride they take in their own looks to a higher place than everyone else does.

In the case of the pretty guy who gets fat, is the OP suggesting it's going to be a bigger quantum leap to go from conventionally pretty to fat, because when they're pretty they gain universal approval and when they get fat they won't? Like, is he saying it's worse for a handsome guy to get fat than for an ugly one?

But:

1. Doesn't that just make you pretty and fat? So you're still "better off" (in your eyes anyway) than ugly and fat? So no biggie, you're still handsome. No need to cry over that then.

2. The distance you travel in your "loss of identity" (what is that anyway? You're "the good looking one"? Do you have chums who're "the funny one" and "the ditzy one"? What is this, an episode of Friends?) between pretty and thin / pretty and fat is exactly the same journey that another guy makes travelling from ugly and thin to ugly and fat, surely? What about poor thin ugly guy, losing his "identity" as "the thin ugly guy"? Worse, what if getting fat makes him really super attractive? He'd no longer be thin ugly guy but fat handsome guy!!!! Nightmare loss of identity!!!!

As for good-looking guys who fancy fat girls, I'm not quite sure what the OP is saying. That because conventional society deems fat people less attractive, that people will judge pretty boys in some way for dating a fat chick? They'll be confused as to why that hot guy is choosing to go out with someone so fat and gross? They'll think there's something wrong with him, like he has a small dick? Oh grow up. Only if they're as shallow as you. Because 1. Most people realise at some point during high school, if not earlier, that fat people aren't of less value than the next person; 2. They'll just assume you like fat chicks, same as if you went out with a short girl, a blonde girl, a clever girl (less likely, that one) - is that too much for your fragile, coveted "identity" as a pretty boy to handle? and 3. News flash: looks don't equal worth. Being handsome doesn't give you status. It might buy you some time and nothing else. A girl might give you five minutes longer than she would the ugly guy because of your looks. But when she realises you're superficial and super-conscious of your own reflection, and that you seem to think you should be given better treatment because of it, she won't stick around (unless she's also highly superficial, in which case, have a great time together).

When I find out a male who is considered "good looking" is dating a girl whose looks/image aren't "identikit bland pretty", the guy goes up in my estimation. When I see a handsome guy who goes out with a mega cool but unconventional girl (fat/pierced/emo/scarily intellectual/disabled/blue-haired etc), I think "oh maybe he's not an *** despite his pretty boy looks" or "oh, maybe he thinks outside the box". It makes him go up in my estimation. I'm actually really disappointed in pretty boys who go out with pretty girls. Yes, I do see that that means I'm making judgments. Pretty people can be nice and kind and funny and awesome and have integrity too. But unfortunately a few of them are so looks-obsessed (and convinced it should mean they get special treatment) they give the rest a bad name.

Oh yes, most definitely. The fantasy LM12 describes is my favourite one too and I have similar memories to hers. I've always thought that the knife-edge where shame and eroticism are balanced is where the fetish lies for me. Because of the (over-exaggerated) shame aspect I find it really hard to talk about with people outside this community. Maybe because the shame had such an emotional impact on me on such a formative/vulnerable time, I feel hyper-alert to the embarrassment still, and that's why I find it difficult to discuss. But it also makes being weighed/measured/poked/taunted/criticised for being fat such a turn-on now.

But I disagree with lovejugs that I subconsciously enjoyed the humiliation at the time. I'm no shrink but I don't follow why your subconscious mind would enjoy something your conscious mind is finding deeply upsetting? What lovejugs says about turning something painful into something you can enjoy sounds legit though, as a defence mechanism your mind employs. Hence I fetishise what used to make me miserable. But I think the fetish and enjoyment came much, much later. We need a psychologist or psychiatrist to tell us when the enjoyment part happens... in the subconscious at the time, or later as a coping strategy?

That's awesome! Thank you! I'm looking for examples from as diverse a range of musical genres as possible, so it's definitely what I'm after! I'd not ventured into this type of thing yet, so yay

I swear there was a post by a lady earlier who said she liked various things including tidying and sorting. I WISH WISH WISH I were like her. Or that she'd come round.

Instead, when I'm not on the sofa drinking tea and watching Scandi crime dramas (accounts for 90% of my spare time), I like sailing Hobie cats, skiing (except it's getting tougher on the thighs/knees these days), ultra-modern jazz, hiking and staring at the sea in remote, windswept places.

Oh and my new year's resolution is to collect and curate a selection of tunes with a flute break. Any suggestions, let me know. It's gotta be an instrumental section rather than all the way through the song. Any genre, the more random the better. This all stems from having to learn the flute at school for years, but to what avail? It's the least cool instrument *ever* and basically no use to man nor beast, SAVE, in my opinion, when utilised in a slightly bonkers schizophrenic interlude. Originally I was looking for jazz flute breaks but then realised that most flute breaks are just random noodling that I'd struggle to describe as actual jazz...

I've always trained. I push things, pull things, drag things, lift, squat, punch stuff, slam ropes, and then squat some more

I'm nowhere near able to do what those with a different power-to-weight ratio can do (chin-ups? Forget it). But I figure if I you're going to be fat, be strong enough to carry it around. Oh and it makes for a nice frame to carry a big belly on too

Christopher Lee. That is all.

What I meant was... argh, just shoot me now.

He's awesome and really rather bright and good at conversations and... ok a bit sexy

Does that make up for it?

You consistently crack me up.