General

I'm reposting this here, even though the original author probably disapproves of us, and even though many here don't like thinking about health or political issues, because I've seen a surprising amount of 'fatism' around FF. I'll be interested to see what conversation this provokes, if any...

J
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The Socially Acceptable Prejudism?

“It is not easy to live life sometimes,
And face the world with a smile
when you’re crying inside.

Fatism leads to a vicious cycle of oppression. Feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, low self-esteem, frustration, anger, hositility lead the victim to more
eating.

Are you a FATIST?
How often do you:
1. Make negative comments about your fatness?
2. Make negative comments about someone else’s fatness?
3. Directly or indirectly support assumptions that no one should be fat?
4. Say or assume someone’s “looking good” because he/she has lost weight?
5. Say something that presumes fat people eat too much of the wrong things?
6. Disapprove of someone gaining weight?
7. Tease someone about their eating habits?
8. Participate in “fat joke” telling?
9. Support the diet industry by buying their services and products?
10. Say something that assumes being thinner is better?

Fatism
The term fatism has been adopted to describe the stereotyping of a person’s personal characteristics based on their body size. Much like racism, fatism holds the belief that others, due to their physical appearance, are less valuable human beings. Both are types of discrimination of others regarding characteristics that they have little or no control over.

The only difference between these two prejudices is that fatism remains to be socially acceptable. Why? Why do we have the right to treat these people differently simply because they are larger?

Fat Myths
Myth # 1: Fat is a Death Sentence
Studies have found that weight is not a very good way to predict how long someone will live or that, in some cases, the fatter people lived the longest.

Myth #2: Being Fat Causes Heart Disease
There is no proven correlation between body fat and atherosclerosis (the build up of fatty plaque in arteries), fat people are no more likely than thin people to have clogged arteries.

Myth #3: Being Fat Causes Diabetes
Based on research, most people can rely on a good diet and exercise to normalize health problems such as high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and insulin resistance - with little weight loss.

Myth #4: Fat People can’t be Healthy
Those who are fittest live longest, no matter what they weigh. Generally, it has been found that fat people who exercise regularly live longer than thin people who don’t exercise.

Myth #5: You can Lose Weight if you try Hard Enough
Ninety five percent of people who lose weight on diets gain back every pound within three years.

We can’t stop fatism or any kind of prejudice on our own, but we can change our reaction to it which will probably influence the thoughts and actions of those
around US.

Do not be a fatist be a loving friend instead.
Fatima Parker
President ISAA UK
www.size-acceptance.org/uk

I agree with all points here. Its something you learn on the internet, there will always be people out there who will maintain that there is no way that you can be healthy and fat at the same time, the only thing to do about that is smile, nod your head, and think "How stupid is this person?"

I agree, dumpling. I think there are plenty of types of discrimination in, as you say, full swing, and it's just easier to see when it's directed at us. But we need to see all of them.

And for what it's worth, I think very thin people DO feel lots of pressure, and get lots of unwelcome comments. Not like us, of course, but bad enough.

Apologies for resurrecting a zombie thread, but I had such a dispiriting conversation tonight with a bright, sparky girl with whom I work, that I felt it might be useful for me to get some views on this issue, as I wonder if I'm being over-dramatic.

We were talking about how society judges women on their appearance. She couldn't see my point that it's unacceptable for someone to shout "fatty" at you in the street. Or rather, she could, but she wasn't prepared to put it on a par with someone shouting a racist comment or an anti-religion/disability comment. She thought, basically, that I should just get over it because they were obviously an idiot.

Her feeling was that there is freedom of speech and therefore because people will have different preferences they are entitled to say what they want. It may not be polite or make them anything other than a total tool, but the issue is more, she felt, about making women more empowered so that they're not depressed by someone making such a vile comment about them.

My issue with that is that whilst assisting women not to care what a person in a white van shouts out of his window about them is a good thing, we haven't made much progress on that front - most women are still paranoid about their appearance and most women in the public eye are chosen on the basis of/popular because of their looks.

My other issue with taking the stance that one has to just ignore it and assist women to have enough self esteem to stop it affecting them is this: it moves the problem from the person making the vile comment to the person on the receiving end. It makes it my problem to deal with being called a fatty or ugly. Which is obviously ridiculous. I'm not here to please others with the way I look. The problem lies with the person shouting that at me, and the general societal acceptance that it's okay to judge a woman on her appearance, and what's more it's perfectly fine to let her know about that judgment even if she hasn't asked. It's that sense of entitlement that if someone doesn't like the way I look, they're justified in pointing it out, even if I haven't asked their opinion.

The woman to whom I was speaking also mentioned something that made me even further depressed - she felt that someone shouting "fatty" at me wasn't the same as having a racist taunt shouted at me because "you can change being fat".

Anyway. My point is that I agree with Juicy that fat seems to be one of the last acceptable prejudices, but it's allied to the general view of most of society that it's fine to judge a person (most often a woman) on their appearance. It's not just being fat that appears to entitle people to feel they can discriminate against someone, but also if they're considered ugly. I'm sure it happens to men too, to a certain extent, but my feeling (but please tell me if you think I'm wrong) is that it's much more extreme/pervasive for women than men.

Should we just put up with people's comments and views and rise above it (they're obviously douches anyway) or should we expect more - should it be just as unacceptable to comment adversely on someone's appearance as it is to comment adversely on their race/religion/sexuality?

Is making fat/ugly-bashing a "hate crime" the solution or does that just stop people saying what they're really thinking?

Will making it not okay to criticise the way someone looks eventually help it filter through that it's not their right to judge anyone on the way they look, or is it pointless because people will always judge, they just won't be allowed to say it?

This is interesting (from another thread on here) - anyone know if this idea got any further?

telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9297496/Calling-someone-fatty-could-become-a-hate-crime.html

My view has always been to take their remarks & turn them positive.Some one calls me "fat" I say"Thank you.I work hard to be this good looking."Or I'll say "Yep & proud of it!"All it is is words & words only hurt if you let them.

Back when I was a kid 1 of my best friends brother was always making the snide remarks.(Although he wasn't exactly buff...lol)1 day he pops up with the old "Hey,Hey,Hey it's Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Albert!(Not my true name but close.)
I looked at him & in my best Fat Albert voice said"Hey,Hey,Hey & I Loooooooooooooooove myself this way!"
He still ocassionally made the remarks for a while but they seemed to have a little more respect to them.Now we laugh about those times.He said I opened his eyes to the fact that just because I was big didn't make me a bad person.

*blush* thanks!



I fear you're right.



Drago, that's my whole problem with her (and your) argument, in my humble opinion. I'm really glad you and she are able to take the responsibility for turning their comments around, not get upset, and maybe even make them see the error of their ways. But it's the fact that WE feel the burden falls on us to defend ourselves, explain/excuse our fatness, assert that we like being fat and/or that it's not their business to judge. Why do we feel it falls on US to make them see differently? That's at the root of the problem in my view. They shouldn't be feeling entitled to make that remark in the first place. The only reason they do is because as Juicy said, fat is the last acceptable prejudice.

"Prejudice" refers to a positive or negative evaluation of another person based on their group membership. Prejudice can also refer to unfounded beliefs (in this case, that fat is "bad" ) and may include any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence (usually in this case that fat is "unhealthy" or "costs the taxpayer" ).

As littlepiggy1975 said:



Drago you're probably right, if we don't each start inviting people on an individual basis to see the error of their ways we'll never get anywhere.

But I still hate that a common first reaction is to put the onus on ourselves to deal with it rather than shifting the onus onto them to behave with respect for others.

My main point is this.They do it because it feels like it gives them power when we get upset by what they say.By turning it into a positive we take that power away.It may be a little at a time but we do.The best way to fight it is to start with ourselves.Until we learn to love ourselves as is we'll get hurt more & more.It's not why doesn't "SOMEBODY" do something it's how can I DO something to make it better.

It doesn't matter what it is people choose to pick on about others. The bullies and idiots of the world will always try and put you down whether it's your looks in general your size what ever. If it for what ever reason makes them feel better about themselves they will continue to do it. They need to be a jerk to build themselves up. It is sad that it seems like calling someone fat in what ever way they choose is somehow still acceptable. Although as an adult I don't actually hear it that often in polite society. Only when someone is mad at me over something they attack the first thing that enters their head and unfortunately it usually is my weight.I personally like to quirk an eyebrow and ask them if that's the best they can do? Have you not learned to be more clever than that since grade school? It is what it is and it's to bad but for now it's the way of the world.

I think when they say acceptable they are meaning in the eyes of the law

for example
if someone was refused an organ transplant based on their race or sexual orientation

it would be totally illegal and they could be taken to court and would almost definitely win the case

whereas if someone was denied and the reason was said to be because of their body size

its not technically illegal and there wouldnt really be much you could do within the legal system

same with things like adoption, employment , health services, immigration etc.

you can legally be declined these things based solely on your weight

whereas to deny someone these things based solely on their race or sexual orientation would be against the law and cause total uproar from the public

and I am of course NOT saying that being prejudicial towards fat people is worse than any other kind of oppression, because i dont believe that at all , just that its legally different

I'm very sorry you've experienced those things and I most definitely am not trying to say that fatism is in any way worse or the only/main prejudice. I doubt it comes close, frankly. But yes Layla is right, the word "acceptable" in this thread is being used to denote those things that are permissible under the law and which most people who deem themselves "right-thinking members of society" would endorse.

Acceptable in the sense that government, professionals taking decisions about people's lives, etc are permitted to use fat as a reason to treat people differently.

People who are racist/sexist/homophobic obviously exist and perpetrate prejudice. However their views are not (officially) endorsed by the laws of most democratic western states. (Horrified by Russia's current stance on homosexuality however...)

Obviously discrimination still occurs against gender/religious choice/sexuality/race etc, but it is not legal to do so, nor could those in power publicly do so (I speak about the UK) without being criticised.

A gay black man who goes to his racist, homophobic (say) GP cannot be turned down for treatment because of his sexual orientation or race or gender. The GP may still discriminate on those grounds, but he can't do so overtly. S/he will have to find another "acceptable" or non-discriminatory reason to deny him treatment, if that is his/her decision. So whilst I am sure those prejudices still happen all the time, they are not "acceptable".

Being fat however is still an acceptable reason to discriminate. There are no laws (in England & Wales, to my knowledge) preventing it. In fact, it is government policy to discriminate against fat people.

There was recently a local council initiative to encourage fat people in receipt of benefits to attend exercise classes if they wanted to continue receiving that state handout. Fat children are being identified and targeted for action by schools. Local authorities have indicated that they would in certain cases be prepared to remove children from their parents if a child's obesity was such that it was causing the child significant harm (in their "standard medicine"-based view) and was caused by the parenting the child had received.

In New Zealand the immigration authorities have decided not to extend a man's work visa because of his BMI. He and his wife will have to leave the country.

You only need to look at the threads on this website to know that many fat people feel they are denied treatment for non-fat-related ailments and are instead told to lose weight by their doctor.

Fat people are denied certain jobs eg. by Abercrombie and Fitch, apparently perfectly legally (although that may be the subject of challenge and may also be related to societal standards of attractiveness as well as weight).

People who deem themselves "reasonable" or "right-thinking" members of society feel strongly that they are perfectly justified in condemning fat people and in believing that those people should, for health and in many cases "moral" reasons, lose weight. They do not feel it is inappropriate to advise fat people of their thoughts on this subject, invited or not.

So the doctor seeing a fat, gay black man who has come for treatment cannot write in the patient's notes "treatment denied because he is black and gay" but s/he can write "treatment denied owing to obesity" (even if that illness has scant evidential link to obesity) without that decision being challengeable, illegal, discriminatory or criticised by many "right-thinking" people.

It backs up and legitimises the majority's feeling of being "in the right" to criticise fat people, look down on them, and single them out for different treatment.

In my opinion it can result in death and/or chronic illness because the stigma attached to being fat results in eating disorders, psychological/psychiatric disorders and people being afraid to go to their doctor for genuine illnesses for fear of being "told off" for being fat.

That is what I mean by fat being an "acceptable" prejudice and again I am not trying to say for a moment that other prejudices are not happening all the time.