General

That first one is brilliant, wish it were on the homepage here lol. Really great job of more things than I can count (srsly, was trying to remember them all to respond but gave up after less than 10 minutes and just listened instead), but really stood out to me the discussion of being shamed for thinness - since that seems to be the source of our own misunderstanding - the discussion of fad dieting, and the comparison between thin shaming and fat shaming, which reminds me somewhat of discussions on the difference between personal prejudice and systemic racism.

Also, and I realize that you might hate this... in addition to being an illustrative example of my own errors in phrasing... she also addresses most of your objections to my first piece. One notable example, for both of us, being her framing of the binary not as fat vs thin but as perceived-as-fat vs not perceived-as-fat. Your first response mentioned you are buff, so you would probably be in her latter category, though something tells me that many women are placed in both categories in a negative light at different times and by different people for the purposes of labelling and controlling their bodies and minds.

Edit:
Yah, not gonna finish the second one tonight I think, already made me choke up twice lol. Really good video though, like the first one. Thanks for sharing.

How about this one?

The Larger Side - A Rant on the Irony and Hypocrisy of Fetishizing Thinness while Tabooing Fat Admiration

(Note: This was pure opinion, and reactionary, with a goal halfway between conversation and being pointed.)

Being into fat women isn't a fetish.

Being into thin women is a fetish.

For millions of years, a fat female body has meant fertility, which, let's face it, is the core of sexuality every bit as much as fun is.

A thin female body, on the other hand, has no biological reason to be attractive (I am not trying to be offensive here, I am talking about the biological purpose of physical attraction): it doesn't as prominently display the nutrition necessary to make baby brains, it doesn't feel as good in bed, and, for most thin women, it also kind of sucks to inhabit... except, debatably, for the attention it gets from people that fetishize thinness.

And that's the crux of the problem: two of the most common reasons to strive to be thin are: one, for that, frankly, biologically-illogical attention, and then the only reason for that attention is a novel and deviant modern cultural norm based largely around just how difficult it is to be thin, thinness perhaps being even an unnatural state for many people; and two, to avoid the negative social attention heaped on anyone that doesn't laud the cult of thinness or has the audacity to actually show in public a body that is larger than borderline anorexic.

It's even become adopted by the medical community itself, despite the dearth of actual evidence. Does excessive visceral abdominal fat have a correlation with some diseases? Yes, yes it does, and that's probably one of the reasons the waist-to-hip ratio is also relevant to instinctual physical attraction to a woman's body.

But there's grosse fallacies imbedded in the medical fear of fat, most prominently: that most fat is not unhealthy; that exercise and healthy foods have far more impact on health than body weight does; and, OF INCREDIBLE IMPORTANCE, that the disease and damage (physical, psychological, social, etc.) caused to individuals and society over the last several decades of cultural bodysize dismorphia and the societal pursuit (read: fetishization) of excessive female thinness, despite it being neither natural nor healthy in many cases, is probably LITERALLY INCALCULABLE (but, certainly, absurdly, obscenely, disgustingly, despicably vast).

The problem with viewing women's attractiveness view a biological lens is that it turns something subjective into objective. This is very dangerous. Because it says that if you do not meet a so-called objective beauty standard, you are not beautiful. People have tried this before, and that's how we got eugenics.

This is why I say it's misogynistic and ablest. If you objectify beauty, you objectify ugliness. And since some women cannot be fat for various health-related reasons, it is also ablest. And for women like me who choose not to be fat, there is something fundamentally wrong with us.

(As a side note, the first video does not present a binary like you say it does. Instead, it discusses two groups. If you re-watch the video, you will see she implies the third group - everyone who isn't fat or thin. I fall into that third group.)

I am curious. Who is your audience for this rant? It's not for women. Two women have told you that you are posting harmful and hurtful things, but you persist. It's not for the people who objectify thin women because they aren't coming to places like this. Is it for the men on this site that enjoy bashing thin women and saying things like "Real women have bellies," or "Sticks are gross," and other things like that? I don't think you are the sort for that, but posts like this *will* attract them.

why are we still here? Just to suffer?

Must be. He's reworked it three times now, and it keeps getting worse somehow. It's like ... he's at the cusp of understanding but is so busy wanting to be right he isn't listening.

I do not like it when people (thus far, it's always been men) become armchair scientists and pontificate about feminine attractiveness. Every time it's always about the male gaze and what men think women should be like. And since modern western beauty standards are made by men, it makes me sigh.

Dude.

That's not what I said, that's not what I meant, and that's not what those videos say. I admitted multiple times to errors in phrasing in the op, and trust me, I AM sorry. But having watched those videos... I feel heard, I very much agree with them, and some of what was said in them was what I was actually trying to say. I literally saved them to my favorites playlist for discussing this topic, so I can note their phrasing if I ever find myself in a discussion like this again.

I feel like it is likely that I triggered you, and for that I am sorry as well, but I also feel like you likely didn't take in my clarifications and rephrasings in the subsequent posts, but just spoke from the original place of anger (I do understand it was my original post that put you there), over and over again.

I am actually on your side, I know this because I hear what you are saying and agree with the declarative and expository statements, just not the ad hominem and recriminations, the othering, victimization, and fury.

I'd like it if you'd at least try to think beyond the original rage, but I do understand if you are too triggered to do that, and I am sorry for taking away your choice there. If it's best for you to not respond, I understand that too. I hope someday you can forgive me for writing words that hurt you. (Again, I REALLY never meant them AT ALL the way yall took them. SERIOUSLY: not my thing, and again, I am sorry that the original phrasing made it sound that way.)

I appreciate you trying to communicate through all this. Thank you.

"A thin female body, on the other hand, has no biological reason to be attractive"

Sit down and shaddup. You don't speak for the rest of us that can find women attractive no matter what.

Sit down and shaddup. Are you mentally deficient? You use a quote as evidence WITHOUT ACTUALLY READING THE QUOTE, and miss this quote "I didn't actually say thin wasn't attractive - I find it attractive" explaining it even more. If you're not gonna read the convo, don't show up pretending to be a knight in shining armor, you're don quixote pissed at shit that's not there and trying to get laid

You:
"A thin female body, on the other hand, has no biological reason to be attractive"

After being called out, also you:

"That I said; do you have an argument specifically about "biological reason to be attractive"?"

You made the quote, then doubled down, now you're lashing out because I held you to it? Seems like you have some anger there, son.

I don't need to white knight anything and apparrlently unlike you I have ZERO problem getting laid. You don't see me whining about thin women not being biologically attractive🤣

I feel like your kind of just making things worse. Your complaining about ad hominem but then calling people mentally deficient like your playing a moba. I’d venture it’s probably easier to let it go instead of blowing it up more so.