Malvineous:
I don't know why I'm wading into this minefield, but here goes. I think the point that was being made was that most people are out here treating each other like objects. Men treat women like a piece of meat, and women treat men like an ATM. So the dynamic is different between men and women, but we're all humans and the hurt feelings are universal. The cycle that was being referred to was that nobody likes feeling used, and the kneejerk reaction for some people is to get defensive and pay it forward (regardless of gender). Yes, a lot of men are very culpable in this, but ultimately I don't think pointing fingers and blaming others for who started it is really that productive. The end result is still the same, a toxic environment for everybody.
The problem is too wide and runs too deep for simple solutions or for any one group to fix on their own. The only solution I can see is for every single person to make it a hostile environment for anyone who objectifies or dehumanizes others (regardless of gender), including calling out the moderators for not doing their job, as well as leading by example. On Feabie, I have seen some of this in action, men calling out the bad behavior of toxic men, and women criticizing toxic women. That's good, but there's not enough of it to make a real difference. Also, it always means SO much more when people police their own, instead of criticizing other groups. That's a great way to make everyone get defensive and reactionary and stop listening. This is 100% a team effort.
For clarity: No, this post is not aimed at being critical of anyone in this thread. No, I am not blaming women for anything. No, it's not their responsibility to stop men from acting predatory. Yes, a lot of men are contributing to this toxic environment. No, men are not the only ones doing so. No, I don't think it's equivalent in severity. Yes, this problem is complicated. Yes, that means it needs everyone on board to police bad behavior. Yes, on both sides. No, I have not personally done enough, mostly because I have social anxiety and I hate confrontation, but I'm working on it.
P.S. This post is my attempt to lead by example and try to steer this into a civil discussion. No, I'm not looking for pats on the back, I point it out so that others might try to do the same elsewhere.
I don't know why I'm wading into this minefield, but here goes. I think the point that was being made was that most people are out here treating each other like objects. Men treat women like a piece of meat, and women treat men like an ATM. So the dynamic is different between men and women, but we're all humans and the hurt feelings are universal. The cycle that was being referred to was that nobody likes feeling used, and the kneejerk reaction for some people is to get defensive and pay it forward (regardless of gender). Yes, a lot of men are very culpable in this, but ultimately I don't think pointing fingers and blaming others for who started it is really that productive. The end result is still the same, a toxic environment for everybody.
The problem is too wide and runs too deep for simple solutions or for any one group to fix on their own. The only solution I can see is for every single person to make it a hostile environment for anyone who objectifies or dehumanizes others (regardless of gender), including calling out the moderators for not doing their job, as well as leading by example. On Feabie, I have seen some of this in action, men calling out the bad behavior of toxic men, and women criticizing toxic women. That's good, but there's not enough of it to make a real difference. Also, it always means SO much more when people police their own, instead of criticizing other groups. That's a great way to make everyone get defensive and reactionary and stop listening. This is 100% a team effort.
For clarity: No, this post is not aimed at being critical of anyone in this thread. No, I am not blaming women for anything. No, it's not their responsibility to stop men from acting predatory. Yes, a lot of men are contributing to this toxic environment. No, men are not the only ones doing so. No, I don't think it's equivalent in severity. Yes, this problem is complicated. Yes, that means it needs everyone on board to police bad behavior. Yes, on both sides. No, I have not personally done enough, mostly because I have social anxiety and I hate confrontation, but I'm working on it.
P.S. This post is my attempt to lead by example and try to steer this into a civil discussion. No, I'm not looking for pats on the back, I point it out so that others might try to do the same elsewhere.
Hun, the conversation ended. You are stiring it back up. And this is *not* a both sides argument. Please listen.
2 years
