General

Not to diminish OP's coming out story, but using the MtF pipeline for men to have sex with women is flawed, in both theory and practice.

First, fully transitioning with bottom/top surgery will leave that person sterile, and if you're interested in having biological children, you will have to freeze your sperm/eggs which will have a set cost per year to preserve. Even when you get to use it, there is a chance the batch has gone bad, and that's the end of it. For women that want families, this will be a big hurdle unless she wants to adopt.

Even when trying to preserve organ function by using T-gel patches, the fluids may become clear if the estrogen overwhelms the testosterone, and the gonads shrink. You can still use your banana to a degree, but even if you want to use it as a contraceptive, you may produce enough T to get someone pregnant.

Secondly, with enough estrogen for a long period of time, MtF's usually begin to see sexuality differently. In some cases, they may lose interest in women, and start chasing men, or what they look for in sex and fetishes may be completely different. For bisexuals, atypical sexualities like feedism, and/or bottoms, this may make little difference, but for women who are picky, they will notice.

Third, although laws have cracked down on escort services, they still exist if you know where to look. If you have no commitment to dating and have zero rizz with cash to burn, there are women that are DTF. Depending on the country, transitioning may be cheaper at first, but has a runaway effect after a certain point.

That said, there are aspects to learning about women that may be useful. Fashion, hygiene, and arts and crafts are useful when socializing, and if you can meet a girl halfway, you can at least be friends with them. There is something to be said about being broke and dating, but self-improvement does not always mean getting cut and buff; for most on this forum, that may be the last thing on their mind. By getting a decent career and saving a budget for dating, you can be ahead of the curb and sustain playing the long game. The dating pool and job hunting are similar in that both require patience to find the glass slipper that fits; if you don't have the time to be fun and/or attractive, prepare to make compromises on both sides of the aisle, and everywhere in between. Even then, being single is not the end of the world, and it's better to have a relationship you like later on in life instead of getting sucked into a relationship which drains both parties.

There's a lot of good points here, but I want to point out two things.

1. Medically transitioning doesn't suddenly change your sexual orientation. At most, it might make you feel more comfortable getting in touch with your true sexuality.

2. While self-care and being financially stable are very good things, they mean nothing if you have a garbo personality. You don't necessarily need rizz to catch a woman's eye. Plenty of us like shy, awkward men. But it's very hard to find a woman to date you if you subscribe to incel ideology.

Oh boy, where do I even begin?
Your claim that all straight men have autogynephilia deep down is just completely absurd projection. I promise you they don't. It's wild that you suggest transition as a strategy for lonely cisgender men to get laid. Why would they want to go through a huge multi-year ordeal (including re-training themselves to move and sound feminine at all times), medicalize themselves for life, expose themselves to huge potential risks and complications, and give themselves gender dysphoria in the process? One of those big risks is losing all sex drive or becoming impotent like yourself, which would totally defeat the purpose of the entire exercise for them, right? If forcing yourself to get used to having sex with other guys is part of the process, then surely it would be much easier to force yourself to just be bisexual instead of going through all this effort to attract straight guys right? Stop trying to gaslight cis people into thinking they're trans. Detransitioners are a growing problem for a reason. Go hatch eggs somewhere else.

I'm not going to insult incels or scold them for misogyny, because I think that's unproductive, and I know it comes from a place of genuine emotional pain and hopelessness. Incels are mentally trapped in a community of guys who constantly gas each other up about how worthless they are and how they're going to die alone without ever feeling intimacy. They prefer to wallow in misery because it's easier to externalize their problems and blame it on things outside of their control like losing the genetic lottery. However, their basic assumptions about women are obviously wrong. Looks are NOT the only thing that matters to women. Confidence and charisma (and hygiene) are skills that can be cultivated, and they count for a lot. The only other thing that you really need in order to date is to have enough financial stability that you aren't broke. Most women aren't into NEETs. Even then, It doesn't matter too much if you're ok with having friends with benefits, since it's such a casual arrangement. Personally, my own experiences attest to this. I have several factors that most incels would conclude makes me undateable. They'd probably rate me a 3 on a good day because they're harsh af. Yet, I've never had that much of an issue finding partners whenever I've honestly tried. And that's even within the feedist community, so the idea that it's impossible to find women you're compatible with is simply untrue.

If I had to guess, I think the main issue that limits their success (before finding the incel community) is social awkwardness. I saw an incel video that they claimed was absolute proof of women's cruelty to ugly men, and it was just an awkward guy that didn't know how to have a conversation or what to say, so he tried to introduce a couple of onlyfans girls he just met to his parents WHILE THEY WERE STREAMING ON ONLYFANS. The girls couldn't stop laughing about it, and I don't blame them. Of course incels assumed they were laughing at his facial structure instead of his actions, because that's the easy way out. There's another similar issue with most of the redpill community/manosphere. They will make accurate observations, drop a few nuggets of actual wisdom, and then generalize the hell out of it and jump to some wild conclusions because of it. Like Fresh & Fit actually believe that 50% of all women are getting flown out to Dubai by their rich sugar daddies, lol. I think one of the biggest culprits in the loneliness epidemic is the apparent fact that 45% of men aged 18-25 have never approached a girl in their lives. I guess cases like Amber Heard are really spooking them that much huh? Of course it's more nuanced and complicated than that, but that's a topic for another day.

Anyway, on the trans topic, the one clarification I want to make for people is that 'transsexual' is still a valid word that a lot of trans folks self-identify as. According to them, transsexual refers to trans people who have gender dysphoria (the classic "born in the wrong body" feeling), who want to medically transition to alleviate it. 'Transgender' is more of an umbrella term that includes other subgroups such as non-binary, gender fluid, various neogenders, femboys (depending on who you ask), and yes, even guys with autogynephilia like OP. They're basically straight dudes who fetishize the idea of having a woman's body. For them, transitioning isn't a way to align their body with how they feel inside, but a way to be submerged in kink 24/7. "Gender euphoria" indeed. Some people in the trans community welcome them with open arms, while many others don't like them and want to gatekeep them. Surprise, there are some bitter divisions in the trans community, just as there are in the LGBT community as a whole. A lot of it just boils down to who gets to use what label to define themselves.

oh god

idk even now where to start.

just no just no no no.

no

people like you is why people dislike trans people.

you dont know what it like to be cis meaning you don't have right ask what it means as do it.

if your account wasnt 7 years old ill be calling you troll.

simple test know what your saying is worng flip the roles does sound really wrong then it is wrong.

@Malvineous:

About autogynephila: I myself was not particularly autogynephilic at the beginning, I never crossdressed before January 2020 and never thought I would do it ever before October 2019. But purposely gaining weight while being FA may be a kind of fetishistic transvestism. Anyway, today I don’t know if I ever met a woman as beautiful as the one I see in the mirror, and my image with revealing clothes is one of the sexiest content I know.

About “transitioning to get laid”: no, not to get laid. I think that fat fetishists have no interest to get laid, even if they first think they have. They are in love with obesity. Indulging this fetish has nothing to do with being in a relationship, founding a family, having children. Living as a fat woman themselves may be the best life for which fat fetishists are made, at least some of them. These people don’t have to transition medically (I didn’t myself and will not), in addition, the sex drive of gainers is often already really low.

Forcing myself of being bisexual instead (having sex with men as a man): I see no interest to do it since I don’t like sex, even less with men. What I love is all about having the role of the woman.

About “Stop trying to gaslight cis people into thinking they're trans”: I don’t know if there are cis and trans people after the definition of transgender ideology. All adult people can transition if they wish. There are for example success stories from incels, they never had gender disphoria but they love their lives now, contrarily to many people who had gender disphoria prior to transitioning (because the real cause of their gender disphoria has not been identified and treated).

About dating in the feedist community: I don’t know personally because I never tried it, but in France the community is like a family, many complaint that there are nearly only men. For global networks like Fantasyfeeder, I watch the statistics.

About what people write in the manosphere: I think that it shouldn’t all be understood in the 1st degree meaning, for example the theory that “all men find only slim and under 35 women attractive” and all the content about it seems to be motivated by sadism, it is in fact sexual SM content (do you really think that there can be another motivation for example for this: heartiste.org/2009/09/29/which-is-harder-on-a-womans-looks-fat-or-aging/ ). I am 41 years old, generally about 125 kg and I live what they call “the carousel”.

People totally don’t get more comfortable around food and gain better self body image no people who gain weight on purpose are actually secretly trans! /s

Also lonely men should just become trans because the are lonely? That’s your first instinct? Not address the loneliness? Maybe late stage capitalism has eroded everything thats community? Nope they’re just trans.

Like this undermines actually trans people and their struggle with self identity id imagine I’m not trying to be an ignorant ass or anything but like holy crap sounds ridiculous

You’re like every right wing straw man in a person with opinions.

Some men have feminization kinks. However, they are cis men, not trans women. Sure, some people discover they are trans through gender play, but most of those with these kinks are cisgender. On the flip side, there are some trans men and other AFAB people who have feminization kinks. It doesn't mean they are actually cis women.

There are a lot of fat fetishists of all genders who very much want to get laid. I'm a female feeder. My partner is a male feedee. We've been dating for a year and regularly discuss marriage and children. We've introduced each other to our friends and families. We also really enjoy sex. We've banged nearly every day this week so far. And there are several feedists on this very site who are in relationships or are getting laid. This includes trans women.


As for the manosphere ...

Yeah, that's gonna be a part two post.

"I myself was not particularly autogynephilic at the beginning"
Timeline doesn't matter. Not everyone has the experience of discovering their "true sexuality", many people genuinely start as one thing, and then change into something else over time, sometimes more than once.

"But purposely gaining weight while being FA may be a kind of fetishistic transvestism."
Maybe for you, but not for others. You're projecting again. FAs who end up finding they have a gainer side say that it happened for any number of different reasons, but trying to become the opposite sex is one I've heard very rarely.

"I don’t know if I ever met a woman as beautiful as the one I see in the mirror"
You're actually just describing autogynephilia.

"I think that fat fetishists have no interest to get laid, even if they first think they have."
Holy shit, so now everyone is secretly asexual too? And then according to you FAs have no desire for a relationship? Literally just look at the personals section, and you'll see that's bullshit. The vast majority of people on earth want to be in an intimate relationship. Stop trying to psychoanalyze people's sexuality and genders, because you're clearly bad at it. If someone says they like a specific thing for a specific reason, maybe just believe them? You don't actually have mind reading powers.

"Living as a fat woman themselves may be the best life for which fat fetishists are made"
Who the hell do you think you are to decide that for them?

"I see no interest to do it since I don’t like sex, even less with men."
You're contradicting yourself. In your first post you wrote:
"It disgusted me at the beginning, but I got used to it.", which indicates you are having sex with men, correct?

"I live what they call 'the carousel'"
You've just contradicted yourself again in the same post. The "cock carousel" refers specifically to women who have a lot of casual hookups instead of wanting long-term relationships.

"For global networks like Fantasyfeeder, I watch the statistics"
Statistics don't dictate people's lives, they're just a record of how often something occurs. Even though it's a sausage party, you can still stand out from the rest and get what you need if you go about it the right way. Also, I wouldn't recommend Fantasy Feeder for dating, apps like Feabie and WooPlus are better.

"it is in fact sexual SM content"
Does everything just look like a secret fetish to you? Mysogyny is prevalent within redpill communities, but I've seen enough of their content to know that they focus mainly on dating strategies, same with passport bros. They speak only vaguely about sexuality, and describe mostly vanilla activities. MGTOW doesn't even do that, their philosophy is to avoid contact with women altogether because they're motivated by fear. Incels of course talk about how sex will never happen. Perhaps a few might be turned on by emotional sadism, but most don't talk the same way as people in fetish communities, they speak with contempt. Even in the link you posted.

"I don't know if there are cis and trans people after the definition of transgender ideology."
Bruh. Of course they exist, people describe how they feel about gender all the time. Stop assuming everyone is lying.

"All adult people can transition if they wish."
Yes they can, and most who do are transgender. There are some people who become convinced that transitioning will be the solution to their mental health problems, only to discover they weren't actually trans in the first place, and now they can't undo the permanent changes to their body. Some have described it as getting a "sexual lobotomy". Detransitioners used to be very rare, but have since grown a lot. The detransitioner subreddit alone has over 50,000 members, and that's not including their other communities and discords. The philosophy you're proposing is literally causing more human misery to exist in the world.

What's particularly troubling about this is that there exists a (thankfully small) number of trans people and chasers online who believe that in every cisgender person, there's a trans person waiting to come out, and that the world would be better if everyone did. They will do and say anything in their power to make that happen through lying and gaslighting, using the very same arguments that OP is making. They call cis people "eggs" and when they're convinced to transition, they've "hatched". This is disturbing and predatory behavior that preys on emotionally vulnerable people who are struggling with their mental health.

I have receipts (CW transphobia):

That video was disturbing as fuck. And enlightening most of the time you hear 4chan and it’s just nazi hitler worship bozos but those people were just like no offense here lonely losers who made a community out of being lonely losers - wild

Before I discuss the manosphere, I want to make two things very clear:

Men's issues and the manosphere are not the same thing. There are issues unique to men that should be discussed, explored, and addressed. However, the manosphere takes these real problems and prey on vulnerable men while bashing other groups (especially women).


The manosphere is more of a pipeline than a community. You start as a normal guy, but the longer you stay in the community, the more extreme you become. If you look at some of the key figures in the manosphere, they become more extreme with time.



For those not in the know, the manosphere is a group that preys on hurting men and convinces them that the natural order for men is to be superior to women. They also believe that the world's problems are due to women not knowing their place.

uhighmidway.com/19241/showcase/falling-into-the-manosphere-pipeline/

Again, there are levels to how intense these beliefs are, but that is the central unifying idea.

Incels are a part of the manosphere. However, while most manosphere men want to be high-value men, incels see themselves as failed men. They are very bitter about it and blame women for all their troubles. Within the incel community, there are incels who "trans-maxx". The thought process is that if you cannot get a girlfriend, you can always be the girlfriend.

It's hilarious on the surface, but it's chilling when you dig deeper. As I mentioned in an earlier post, incels think that women live on easy mode. It shouldn't come as a shock they are bitter and loathe women with every fiber of their being (while wanting to have sex with them). So, for a trans-maxxing incel, They are just trying to get in on the hustle.

I am not going to deny their transness. I truly believe some of them are trans, but have some ... things to work through. However, given how incels view trans people, I find it highly ironic.