Gaining

Chimneychonga:
Interesting, I haven't heard of them being combined like this. But even in the worst case scenario, the worst effects of a semiglutide are only 1% from the physiology of the patient. Aside from a from the odd defective needle the experience the same even when applied by oneself. Compare that to invasive surgery (removing stomach tissue and stapling the stomach shut), where not only the materials and knowledge matter, but the experience of the surgeon as well. If you got the cash and travel time, your odds are much better to survive w/o complications with a skilled surgeon than your local operating room where you may be stuck with a rookie. If I had to choose for myself, I know which treatment would be faster.

As for semiglutide costs, the ingredients aren't the problem: everyone but the US generally has a better time getting it for what it's worth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pndCjCKNZfQ

Frankly, it's scalping the US because R&D necessary to invent the drug was banking on the US to pay for it, and they don't want to stop the revenue by solving the problem until they get their fill. Thus, why America had a shortage while you could hop across the border and get it for a steal. And if the patent expired, people would make a generic, everyone that can take it would take it like aspirin.

Munchies:
Beloved, you are missing the point.

This isn't about the efficacy of semaglutide. I don't think anyone is questioning that. It's about understand that you need different tools for different things.

Did you know that despite all of our medical advances, people are still using leeches and bloodletting in your average hospital? Sure, we don't use them the same way we used to, but there is still a medical use for them.

Chimneychonga:
I suppose in that sense, you're right. There will be fringe cases where this will be a known workaround. But I've seen cases (namely Boogie2988) where people treat bariatric surgery as a miracle cure, and from sheer ignorance either drink their calories to undo their weight loss, or stretch their stomach so far that they're back to square one. You could argue the cost per year where it's better than placebo, but if that ever happened to me I'd be pissed even though it would technically be my fault in that case.

Chimneychonga:
I suppose in that sense, you're right. There will be fringe cases where this will be a known workaround. But I've seen cases (namely Boogie2988) where people treat bariatric surgery as a miracle cure, and from sheer ignorance either drink their calories to undo their weight loss, or stretch their stomach so far that they're back to square one. You could argue the cost per year where it's better than placebo, but if that ever happened to me I'd be pissed even though it would technically be my fault in that case.

Munchies:
Beloved, don't use Boogie as an example. That man's life is a series of poor decisions after poor decisions, and he ignores the people in his life who give him good advice.

Also, anyone going into bariatric surgery is quickly disabused of the notion that very early on. They have to see a barrage of specialists to confirm they are candidates for the surgery. They are told in graphic detail everything they can expect before, during, and after. Also, their doctors check in with them after the surgery to ensure they follow what they must do after the fact.

I've seen the paperwork alone, and it takes time to determine whether you are a qualified candidate. It is ... a lot. If a bariatric patient comes away from the prep work thinking this is a magic cure, they literally paid attention to nothing. I'm also dating someone who has had the surgery in the past, so I am very familiar with the aftercare.

Also, medical leeches are not fringe. Their use is not super common, but that is only because their use is very narrow. They are primarily used with reconstructive microsurgery. Fringe medicine is any treatment not widely accepted as part of western medicine.

While I don't love that definition as it can include traditional medicine in non-western cultures that do work, most use it for things like drinking salty cabbage water to reverse aging, wearing copper bracelets to ease arthritis pain, or sticking a slice of potato in your socks to cure a cold.

Chimneychonga:
I suppose in that sense, you're right. There will be fringe cases where this will be a known workaround. But I've seen cases (namely Boogie2988) where people treat bariatric surgery as a miracle cure, and from sheer ignorance either drink their calories to undo their weight loss, or stretch their stomach so far that they're back to square one. You could argue the cost per year where it's better than placebo, but if that ever happened to me I'd be pissed even though it would technically be my fault in that case.

Munchies:
Beloved, don't use Boogie as an example. That man's life is a series of poor decisions after poor decisions, and he ignores the people in his life who give him good advice.

Also, anyone going into bariatric surgery is quickly disabused of the notion that very early on. They have to see a barrage of specialists to confirm they are candidates for the surgery. They are told in graphic detail everything they can expect before, during, and after. Also, their doctors check in with them after the surgery to ensure they follow what they must do after the fact.

I've seen the paperwork alone, and it takes time to determine whether you are a qualified candidate. It is ... a lot. If a bariatric patient comes away from the prep work thinking this is a magic cure, they literally paid attention to nothing. I'm also dating someone who has had the surgery in the past, so I am very familiar with the aftercare.

Also, medical leeches are not fringe. Their use is not super common, but that is only because their use is very narrow. They are primarily used with reconstructive microsurgery. Fringe medicine is any treatment not widely accepted as part of western medicine.

While I don't love that definition as it can include traditional medicine in non-western cultures that do work, most use it for things like drinking salty cabbage water to reverse aging, wearing copper bracelets to ease arthritis pain, or sticking a slice of potato in your socks to cure a cold.

Chimneychonga:
My mistake, sorry about the leeches thing. I was lacking context when you said "leeches and bloodletting" and I was thinking third-world aftercare or unironic witch doctor stuff that's still being practiced in certain parts of the world. Using worms for sutures is pretty based, and although nano machines aren't a reality yet, this is pretty dang close.