General

As far as im aware the only thing being shamed when talking about incels are their misogynistic and beyond regressive views.

Very different to classism or body shaming, the examples you gave.

Aren't they shamed for being ugly and/or living in their mother's basement too, though? I mean, if we're going to do radical left stuff, let's be consistent.

Anyone who makes fun of how people look sucks. Also disliking incels and hating their views isn't radical i would argue it's just human decency

What's radical left here?

You are right that there are stereotypes of incels that are mocked, and I agree, that's not ok, but that still doesn't change the fact that the "incel" conversation in this case isn't about people disliking when certain individuals don't use deodorant, it's about "incel is a slur" which... it's not.

Then insult them on the basis of their reactionary politics, not on the basis of how much sex they aren't having. Calling them incels just legitimizes that reactionary worldview and concedes that it's reality.

The thing is, "incel" *doesn't* mean just the portmanteu, as I mentioned.

Words evolve, phrases evolve, "incel"=toxic misogynist, at least colloquially as a word, that's a self-claimed title, so if people don't want to call themselves misogynists, they shouldn't call themselves misogynists.

At this point, the onus is not on society to rename the malicious ones, it is on the individuals who are associated with the group who should distance themselves from the stereotype.

It just seems like a way to wriggle out of the same sort of accountability y'all expect from the people you describe, that's all. And if they see you refusing to accept accountability, why would you expect them to? It's a great way to keep the culture war going forever, but not a great way to heal its divisions and move on to the class war that's keeping us all down.

And what's the root of it, really? I know people on both sides of this culture war, and the biggest reactionaries and the biggest wokes are just mirror versions of each other, doing the same things for the same reasons, and justifying it with the same sorts of lies they tell themselves. One kind of wishes it was possible for them to both lose, except they both already have lost the class war, and this is how they've chosen to lash out instead of doing anything productive about it.

No hate to anyone, I am new here so maybe I haven't seen all the context or whatever. But the broader debate about this particular term bugs me because it puts the lie to the principles of sexual liberation and bodily autonomy that I actually do support.

I can respond, but instead I'm going to walk away, because I don't know if I'm misreading or you're misrepresenting and I don't want to escalate this further.

(that being said, I wouldn't know where to start responding, tbh)

I agree with everything you just said, with the caveat that "incel" doesn't mean someone who isn't having sex, which is kinda what you implied earlier. It's someone who isn't having sex AND actively blames it on other forces, mostly women. You can't divorce the two things.

Someone can choose to be celibate, or someone can be going through a "dry spell" or whatever you want to call it, or someone can just not have the social skills and confidence to go out and find a partner, but that doesn't make any of them incel. Incel-dom is pretty fundamentally a misogynist ideology.

But calling any random bigot "incel" cheapens the terms, and calling random people who aren't having sex incels is inaccurate and insulting. I agree with that completely.