General

VladGhostal:
"Fat - especially fat bellies - are stigmatized. "

Is that like a rule? Like heres physics, and here's a tribalistic us vs them mindset that does nothing but create an "other" instead of....just knowing skinny=desirable was contextual?

Like get out of the West, have you seen a Samoan? Lol . Many places aren't as uptight as the ones with a 17th Century fire and brimstone Protestantism upbringing.

Sumo? Venus?
Trust me, it may not be pretty, but the world ain't as against ya as you think breathe easy

VladGhostal:
Also, right there. In making it an empowering statement, you are casting anyone thin into the dustbin

Unity. Strive for unity. Ain't it great what the human stomach can do in general? like fella ive tortured the poor thing.


Yeah we were ***es, back when humans were ***es. Like, were getting there. Short gals need some boosting next imo. Gal at my old work, best boss ever. Just fun and good at managing. She had so much trouble sometimes getting everyone a bit :-| srs faced. Miss ya Katy! Crazy a**

If we are truly the progressive ones, the morally correct ones in this lifestyle, we should have no trouble taking the high road on all this imo

Ferro1987:
What has his thread turned into?!

I like my hairy belly!

VladGhostal:
"I'm a black woman born and raised in the American South. We appreciate thicker bodies, but we also experience discrimination for not achieving Euro-centric standards of beauty. And a lot of these people standards were made with with anti-black racism in mind."

Then don't follow them or care what goes through their heads? Forge the path forward. My goodness, the story your life must tell. I will always have zero idea. just a touch of reverence.

VladGhostal:
My goodness, you are all blaming everyone but the one with any power to do anything bout it.

When did racism come in? I didnt get that memo.

I was preaching unity? Commisseration? Stressed smoke breaks in the cold night? When the weird band together, the definition flips dont it. There's magic 101.

Don't hide behind a rule with a ruler to dictate what is yours. Take it! We define it by existing and banding as one. The future is pixie dust under your feet. Do a kickflip.

VladGhostal:
I wish you nothing but the best. Hope ya find what your looking for.

It's all there, and it will be no matter my effort or state of mind because its an avalanche of inertia my current slef has no actual chance at taking on changing alone. One bird cant reverse a hurricane ya know. I'm glad to be alive today, and i try to focus on the positives. Spread good will and help out where I can. Never naieve, always humble.

If i think too much about the reasonings of things against me i tire myself out unnessesarily, and i feed energy into it. lose lose imo. A failing of science atm is that you can always take in more data, and get the precise amount of all the variables, except the ones you forgot and the ones you are as unaware of as a dog to financial strategies.

We all wake up and just wing it one day at a time.


I'm advocating for self worth, and not waiting for someone to love your body for you. Finding like minded people and just keeping your focus there, and believing in it. I have no idea where its being pulled.

Munchies:


Enas:
Please offer your insight! Don't waste your time and energy on responding with completely useless, to the conversation, memes!

Munchies:
I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Beauty is subjective as well as a social construct. But that doesn't mean it's not real.

Fat - especially fat bellies - are stigmatized. Women have it worse, but the general public sees them as disgusting. This leads to a lot of mental health issues that can spill over to physical health issues. On top of that, people perceived as gross and ugly are far more disadvantaged over those perceived as beautiful or even average. There's tons on stories in the forums alone about those denied medical care or encouraged to engage in dangerous, life threatening things all in the name of losing weight. Some have been abused for their soft middles.

So saying "all bellies are beautiful" is more than a platitude. It is a radial statement of reclaiming power and control. To be beautiful is to be valued. And when you know have value, you aren't going to accept the discrimination a lot of people force on you. Because boy howdy do a lot of people internalize fatphobia and think they deserve the abuse they get.

This shouldn't be reality, but it is. And it's like this pretty much everywhere - even within the fat fetish community.

So, once again:

Munchies:


Enas:
Please offer your insight! Don't waste your time and energy on responding with completely useless, to the conversation, memes!

Munchies:
I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Beauty is subjective as well as a social construct. But that doesn't mean it's not real.

Fat - especially fat bellies - are stigmatized. Women have it worse, but the general public sees them as disgusting. This leads to a lot of mental health issues that can spill over to physical health issues. On top of that, people perceived as gross and ugly are far more disadvantaged over those perceived as beautiful or even average. There's tons on stories in the forums alone about those denied medical care or encouraged to engage in dangerous, life threatening things all in the name of losing weight. Some have been abused for their soft middles.

So saying "all bellies are beautiful" is more than a platitude. It is a radial statement of reclaiming power and control. To be beautiful is to be valued. And when you know have value, you aren't going to accept the discrimination a lot of people force on you. Because boy howdy do a lot of people internalize fatphobia and think they deserve the abuse they get.

This shouldn't be reality, but it is. And it's like this pretty much everywhere - even within the fat fetish community.

So, once again:


Enas:
Okay! Now I can work with this a little bit better. So, what you write here is basically a materialist explanation of how this came out to be! The way i interpret it at least!

My question is, Is this the best we can do? To pretend that our bodies are beautiful, (instead of beauty living in the ideological space) in order to counter the discrimination? But it would require the same level of mental energy, or less to explain that everyone has different views! That's a much tougher ideological argument to make, instead of the "No, im beautiful", which is really only a reactionary move to the discrimination. It tries to prove it wrong, without proof which makes it a toxic and not a constructive argument! And I'm criticizing precisely that! And in fact i provide an alternative, precisely because i do understand that discrimination does cause harm! It is stupid! It is irrational! But the way to counter it is not with more of the same! But with something that will render the logic of the discriminator obsolete!

Also a few more points,
I never implied, and i see that it might not have come across clearly, that beauty isn't real. Beauty is purely ideological. It resides in the domain of ideology,each one of us has! And our ideology constructs our reality! Here I'm not saying that beauty isn't real, but precisely *how* it is real!

Secondly, i didn't understand how beauty is a social contrast at all. Beauty standards absolutely are (in any kind of civilization) i can see how perceptions of beauty can affect society, and how society can affect the perception of beauty people have, but that, again is something elde. I'd really appreciate it if you explain this point further, because i cant see how beauty could be a social construct!
And lastly, I'd actually appreciate it If you also provide constructive criticism to my previous post too!

VladGhostal:
"Have you ever had depression? Have you ever been told that your body is bad? That it's a direct reflection of your moral character?"
Yes. Actually yes. Not 2 spar Flat out i am commiserating. I do not care the responses, i do not play the games, i feel unless we acknowledge in every single one of the ways this system failed us all, we are doomed to just go back and forth. As a man my self worth as far as society is concerned is purely my production. Not how it looks or how i look, my emotional well being or my support network. My health is only questioned if offending or detrimental to my output, and even then its always an air of "you should have been on this" Nor my personality unless it is pigheaded stubbornness, or thinly veiled sociopathy. If my arm breaks slightly the wrong way one day, thats IT FOR ME for 75 percent of work. As in, whatever skills and training i have been accruing might as well have been spent on Cocaine and Orange Juliuses.
And oh lord help you if your mental or emotional state gets in the way. If your privileged, you get too sad and your wife loses her car. If you're with the rest of us? Your family starts to...STARVE. How's that for a suck it up pep talk? Yall think guys dont know how to share our emotions. We do. Generally of course. but. Like what would it even solve? At best laughed at, and def worse. There is no support network for males. No honest good modern masculine guidance. Just honest to god alcoholism, and the idea that morals are fixed, but the ground they lay on can swap hands 5 times this week already. Why do you think the fringes are absolutely spazzing? Lack of all this, when women seem to have it built in is where the suicide statistics come into play. I'm grateful at least some humans can confidently cry out when those thoughts come a knocking, and find succor. Srs