General

Morbidly A Beast:
So you accept that it’s unacceptable for women to be harassed, good. My contention is that it is different but not dissimilar to someone being discriminated against, thus it to being bigoted is an unacceptable behavior do you follow?

Morbidly A Beast:
So you accept that it’s unacceptable for women to be harassed, good. My contention is that it is different but not dissimilar to someone being discriminated against, thus it to being bigoted is an unacceptable behavior do you follow?

Enas:
Here, problems begin. Specifically, what does "discrimination" means? I think the argument you make here is problematic because "discrimination" might include too much stuff. Reporting someone for racist behavior is, by definition, discrimination against racist behavior. Or excluding narcissistic people from positions of power (this never happens btw, but it would be very good) is discrimination against narcissism. You dont need to wait for harm to be done in order to act to prevent it.

Im not saying that discrimination is good, im saying that it depends on context. Is it done rationally? Is it done ethically, to make peoples lives generally better? Can you justify it?

What we usually call discrimination (i.e. Against gender, race, ethnicity and so on) is bad because its unreasonable, unethical and cannot be justified without logical fallacies. Not *merely* because its discrimination.

To conclude with this, yes i get what you (propably?) mean, but its extremely importand how exactly you choose to word it.


About the second thing you said... Nobody needs to justify how they feel. However usually what happens is people confuse what their feelings are with what might have caused it,and they often times talk about the second one. And that might manifest in an offense (accusing someone of their behavior). When someone makes an offense they should also justify it. That already happens to some degree, for example if you report someone, the mods ask you for proof. Thats justification!

(btw wanna continue this conversation, elsewhere? )

Munchies:
TIL that Enas does not understand the difference between discrimination and consequences for bad behavior.

Learning things. Well, I suppose English is not your native language.

Morbidly A Beast:
I’m not talking about hypothetical abuse I’m talking about actual reported abuse or like people being abusive for the world to see in a public space.

That’s why I likened it to women talking about being harassed. While it’s different the same actions should be taken.

Munchies:
TIL that Enas does not understand the difference between discrimination and consequences for bad behavior.

Learning things. Well, I suppose English is not your native language.

Enas:
I made a distinction between the two. You ignored that?

Im always open to criticism, but i would like to be criticised for the things i actually do, not for the illusions other people might have about me...

Morbidly A Beast:
I’m not talking about hypothetical abuse I’m talking about actual reported abuse or like people being abusive for the world to see in a public space.

That’s why I likened it to women talking about being harassed. While it’s different the same actions should be taken.

Enas:
The example i gave with moderators asking for proof is the most realisitic example i can think of.

I have a suspicion most of the abuse happens in private. That's because a lot of the time the abuse is narcissistic and narcissists are self-aware about not showing their true colors in public.

With public harassment things are very simple because everyone, aside from incels codnems it. No justification, or hell, not even an accusation needs to happen. Except for legal reasons (like so, police can arrest the person who harassed, if that is suposed to happen). Beyond that we'd talk about systemic problems.

I don't know why you bring twitter as an example, people there go through much more abuse, missinformation, etc.

Even offense can be justified. For example if you accuse someone of abuse, and that is a negative quality (which of course it is), that -definitionally- is an insult to his character. The fact that its true doesnt negate that. Why is this importand, though?

Because you *have* to judge if an offense is justified or not. That may be easy if you have first experience of the event that lead to the offense, but its hard if you dont. Most people judge with what feels right, not what is logically right.

All these details are why i think the rules are too shallow btw. They don’t consider all this nuance and its left to the mods' personal judgement ability, which no matter who the moderator is, it will always have room for improvement.

There is more to add too. For example i would really appreciate it if this community cared more for the mental health of its members in order to help them become resilient, rather than take an approach which leads to *only* catering to peoples inabilities, and often those inabilities compromise the social health of a community (leading to people being bitter about each other, etc)