General

I couldn't have said it better.

This 100%. I was convinced this thread was a joke because it’s so ridiculous.

I’ll give OP the benefit of the doubt. Yes, it’s easier for women to find partners and get attention online and IRL That’s true. But not being able to see the other side of that is insane.

In our society, people are not ready to accept the diversity of opinions. There are political correctness, taboos, and with many people, it’s not possible to think, rather they react as if we would press buttons: “Aaaaah, fachiiiiiist! Perveeeerse! That’s scientism!” etc.

@Pillbug, John Smith: Pillbug you insinuate that I wrote that victims of sexual crimes merited what happened to them. That’s a typical button when someone dares to say that the purpose of sexy clothes is to be looked at. But common men reactions are neither sexual crimes nor sexual harassment and people who receive these reactions are not victims. The word “mansplaining” is always used when a man dares it to express a different opinion, it is a kind of censure.

@chubbybutt22: Did you read my last post? I am now living it and at the end I mention that it’s not all easy. But men’s common reactions to women’s beauty are not „the other side of that.” In a book about this topic, the author wrote that in our society, the exhibitionist side of women, the desire to be looked at, was wrongfully denied. He quotes an older woman who had said him: “For pretty women, something is worse than being whistled: not being whistled anymore.” (In fact, there is a solution to loss of attractiveness due to age, but in our still conservative society, I am called a perverse if I tell it: the solution is fetishism.)

Wow there's some scary stuff in this thread.

I lived as a man and I'm transitionning as a woman at the moment.

When I dressed as a man, I chose clothes that I thought were making me look good and that I was comfortable with. For ME, no one else.
As a woman, I choose clothes that I think makes me look good and that I'm comfortable with. For ME, no one else.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't think women are dressing up to please others. That opinion is also shared by all the women who were/are close to me in my life.

@chubby1258, qqkilos: It is important to read what I wrote before you answer and not to deform it if possible. I never meant that “women dress a certain way in order to please others”, but that the purpose of dressing sexy is to be looked at (to be seen as sexy by the people.) I have plenty female clothes that are not sexy, but when I dress sexy, I don’t expect men not to look at me, rather I watch how men react to me and it makes me euphoric. Sexy clothes are not comfortable. High heels for example are painful. If I just wanted to wear clothes that make me look good and I’m comfortable with I would never wear sexy clothes like high heels. But that’s not the case, and in addition, I have the corresponding masochism. If I wore sexy clothes and I said that I just want to wear comfortable clothes it would be a lie.

@MackTheFork: I suggest you go out into the real world, outside of the political correctness of puritanical feminism (which denigrates all what women can do as women and is in fact on the same side as patriarchal religions and their conservativeness, see for example what evangelist Franklin Graham told about the Superbowl half time with J-Lo and Shakira which is after him sexual exploitation of women: friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/02/03/trump-loving-evangelist-whines-about-lack-of-moral-decency-in-halftime-show/ ), and talk to real women before you make declarations about them.

How about we try to get this thread back on track …

Set aside the words and ideas used by the original poster and others throughout this thread. Some were bad and some were good, but it is honestly too hard to separate the two from each other at this point.

Instead, I ask you to focus on the subject line, which happens to be a valid and important topic for discussion on a site that revolves around body image and size, as well as the reactions of others to both.

“Women are so lucky to be stared at and admired” … This statement is both true and untrue.

TRUE … Women DO get stared at, whether they are intentionally seeking it out or not. On a site where both female and male feedees/gainers seek out the approval and appreciation of others by sharing photos and videos of their bodies … those shared by women DO get more attention than those shared by men, whether that attention comes from men or fellow women.

I can understand the frustration that men on this site, and out there in the world, have when it comes to this fact, including the frustration of the original poster, who at the time they started this thread, was in the process of transitioning from a man to woman.

I can only begin to imagine how difficult it must be to feel like, and to take the steps to become, a gender you were not born as (in this case a woman) while still having to live in a world where you are treated like, and viewed as, a gender that you do not identify as or wish to be (in this case a man) … to want to be seen and admired as women so often are, but instead be ignored and overlooked as men so often are.

TRUE … Women ARE lucky to live in a world where their bodies are admired and appreciated on a far larger scale than the bodies of men, whether they are bigger girls or not. It is a beautiful thing to be admired and appreciated, especially when it comes to your body and being able to have confidence it it … and “extra” especially when it is a larger one.

BUT (one as big as my butt) …

UNTRUE … Women ARE NOT always lucky when it comes to being stared at and/or admired for their bodies, whether that attention comes from men or fellow women. Not all attention is positive our comes from individuals who have good intentions in giving it.

Yes, women get started at more than men. Yes, women get more attention when it comes to their bodies than men. Yes, thanks to all that extra attention, women get more admiration and appreciation, more likes and comments, when it comes to their bodies. But … the flip side of that coin is that, thanks to all of that extra attention, women also get far more negativity, more put downs, abuse, and interactions with creeps and predators, when it comes to their bodies.

SO … The intended moral of this post … when you are forming an opinion about how good someone does or doesn’t have it when it comes to their gender, the way that they look, the attention they get in terms of their bodies, or anything else … look at, and think about, things from both sides.

The grass may seem greener on the other side, that doesn’t mean that it always is.

Now ... Can we all try to keep this thread on topic with the subject line in a way that is positive and constructive?😊

Just_Jess_81, Absolutely true! As I lived as a man pretty much all my life, I never got any single compliment from strangers, but I also never got any mean comments either.

I often see my women friends get nice compliments, but I also see them receive creepy and disgustings comments from weird people.

Nothing is perfect for anyone!

I think one of the main issue in that thread is that OP clearly said that they « love to be fetishized », « look at », used « for sexual gratification », etc when they dress « sexy » or in general.
While I can understand that, what bothers me is they seem to transfer their own fetishes to all women and this is rather problematic. One can’t just assume others have the same fetishes as them and thus, almost, justifying all the problems face by women by « They dress sexy so, like me, they want to be sexualized and look at ».

I said it before and others as well, women dress the way they want in, first and foremost for THEMSELVES.

Please do your research before expressing your ignorant opinion.

There's no statistic for the ratio of trans women vs trans men. A quick look in the community suffise to assess that there are in fact more trans women than trans men.
However, trans men are seriously downplayed and underrepresented in society.

Thank you Just_Jess_81 for your respectful intervention. Fortunately, in my town, the steps to become a gender you were not born as are not very difficult. The acceptance level is very high, cisgender women even spoil transgender ones. It happens very often that a woman wants to offer me a cigarette or a drink “because it’s wonderful so see somebody who stands by what he/she is.” They want to make my make-up, they go with me for shopping, they defend me in night-clubs for example when a man touches my breast or forcibly kisses me (something like that happens on average every 15 min). Most people who know me call me “madam” and use the feminine form for me (in the French language, even adjectives often change in the feminine form), people who don’t know me do it at least as long as they haven’t heard my voice, most of them continue after.

I am stunned how being a fat woman is accepted. I am sometimes laugh at for that, but much more chatted up and complimented, even by native French. Maybe it’s because my face is very beautiful, but I also get compliments for my curves.

Transgender men are less visible in society, but I went to a discussion group of a transgender organization and I would say that there were about as many transmen as transwomen (normally, it’s not a matter of “it’s easier / more difficult to live as one gender rather than the other”). Unfortunately, pre-HRT transmen can’t do the same as we do with make-up.

It is very important for me to tell that I “love being fetishized”, “looked at”, “used for the sexual gratification of men” and women, “degraded with sexy pictures/vids of me”, etc., because it is a response to puritanical feminists (that’s why I use their own vocabulary) who assume that libertine things are bad. Conservatives believe these things are immoral and when puritanical feminists speak this way, conservatives then say: “Look how these ungodly things harm women!” I grew up in a very conservative evangelical family (where even make-up was considered as immoral), but I doubted it, researched for several years after which I became an unbeliever. On the contrary, I love these libertine things and I think it’s very important that people know there are also people like me, that people also hear a different opinion to the issue than the puritanical feminist / conservative one.