Gaining

Hmm. This seems like a particularly uncharitable interpretation of his joke, and not consistent with what he's expressed so far. Like, does "consent is tantamount to slavery" really seem like a take a reasonable person would have? Obviously not. So maybe that's not what he means.

I would prefer it if we, as a community, would double check our understanding before lobbing insults/accusations like "fucking sick freaks".

No one is saying consent is oppressive, or that consent isn't important. Some of us just don't see how thoughts/fantasies are thing that require others' consent. My approach is to try figure out if/where/why we disagree




I think there's some ambiguity in the term "fetishize". I've seen it used different ways in different places. How do you mean it? Is the meaning you're working with limited to "projecting fantasies on normies", or does it mean something more and/or different? Is it posting it that's the problem, or even fantasizing about it privately?

Similarly, I think there's some ambiguity around saying something is cringe. Do mean that you personally find "fetishizing" distasteful and don't like that people do it, as one might dislike idk, kale? Or that there's something morally objectionable about it? (In which case, our feelings about it are irrelevant)

I think the following example might help clarify, but feel free to ignore. In the following scenario, I'm wondering what steps you consider to be "fetishizing", "cringe", or morally objectionable, or which steps require Bob's consent.

Step 1. Alice finds her coworker Bob attractive.
2. Alice fantasises about vanilla sexy times with Bob.
3. Alice is also into feeidism, and fantasizes about feedism sexy times with Bob. She has no idea whether Bob is into feedism or not.
4. Alice notices that Bob gains weight and likes it. She doesn't know his opinion on his gain.
5, version 1. Alice hopes Bob gains more weight. Alternatively,
5v2. Alice hopes Bob gains more weight, but only if he wants to. Alternatively,
5v3. Alice hopes Bob gains more weight regardless of whether he wants to or not.

So far, Alice has been totally private with her thoughts, but she decides to share some of them on FF:
6. Alice writes her Bob+feedism fantasies as fic. She changes their names and identifying details, and then she posts it to FF.
7. Alice writes a fairly anonymous post about Bob on FF, including what she presently finds attractive about him (e.g. his recent weight gain, how she likes how his work uniform fits now, etc.). Nothing that would be likely to lead back to him.
8v1. In the post, she mentions that if Bob gains more weight, she would enjoy it. Alternatively,
8v2. In the post, she mentions that she hopes Bob will gain more weight

This is one of the most academic and deconsteuctive threads - and I'm here for it.

I do think we've gone way off of OP's initial topic, but I'm interested and appreciative of the many different points and perspectives happening in here.

- How do we define consent with regard to individual's sexual thoughts about others?

- What is a fetish versus a kink versus a preference?

- What are our obligations for the protection of modesty/sentiments non-FF human beings?

Fascinating stuff, and not what I expected when I started reading this thread.

Of course. I was being facetious.

You've lost me. A little help?

I very strongly believe people can think whatever they wish. They can't DO whatever they wish, but as long as you keep it in your own skull, think what you will. Anyway, we have limited ability to control what we think. I don't know about you, but I have all sorts of awful thoughts that come unbidden. But I keep them to myself and don't act on them.



Psychologists might make fine distinctions between them, but I think they're pretty much culturally defined.



Civility.

I want to preface this by saying I am very much aware that just because you fantasize about something doesn't mean you would do it IRL. There's also a difference between being attracted to someone (not something you can control) and having sexual fantasies about someone (something you can control). That said, in my opinion, it comes down to those who consented to be sexualized and those who did not.


I also want to make it clear that there is a difference between sexualizing people and objectifying them. Sexualizing isn't inherently one thing or another. It just is. Objectifying someone reduces them to whatever traits or features make you one without regard to their personhood.

I also think it doesn't matter if you know someone shares your kink. If you either know they aren't cool with it or can't confirm if they are cool with it, then maybe don't.

The reasons are two-fold: Doing this can warp your thinking and your relationships with others. I touched on both in previous posts. The things you think about and how you think about them influence everything you do and say. I am not saying that if you fantasize about force-feeding that cute girl in the next cubicle, you'll do it. I don't think most would. But you'll notice how your thoughts about this person alter how you interact with them. This can have unintended impacts as well.

Even if it's a person you'll never see again, it can alter how you think and interact with similar people. Objectifying people (because that's what this is) makes it easier to ignore a person's humanity and agency even if that's not what we mean to do.

Ngl, the joke would have landed better if you had said "blindfold ourselves" instead of the burka thing. After all, the dispute was about the ethics of objectification and voyeurism and not modesty or religious practices.

But you do you, boo.

Very defensive for a neckbeard, derailing other people's threads for attention. What you think does not matter. You are no one worth listening to.

Make your own topic don't hijack other people's.

The universe does not care. Don't police people's thoughts.

Masturbate go to sleep. Goodbye.

Amen, this has to be one of the most absurd & mind-numbing threads I have ever read… 🤦‍♂️