General

I like the part where you had no defense of loredraytons shitty behavior and just did a lazy ass meme

LoraDayton:


That's a valid point. One that has absolutely nothing to do with what OP implied.



Because he's talking about specific behaviors not present in all women as a group.



Because criticizing that behavior is good.



Because it's valid.



Oh so now you're AGAINST generalizing people of a certain group? Interesting change in position.

Imo you're being very deservedly dragged for a pretty bad take, and unwilling to even consider you were projecting your own issues onto the situation.

If guys keep paying the girls will keep asking for money.
If they can make a living selling themselves who am I to say anything?
Only fans is full of those types and I know a few of the big girls on there that do well.
They have suggested I do it but self respect is a big deal with me.

For someone who purports to totally respect women in their profile, it seems to be lost on you that a woman hears this exact rhetoric from other men *constantly* in private also.
I cannot tell you how many men have told me out of the blue "wow you're not like all the others who are scamming for money and begging for sponsored feedings."

So the fact that they then come here to complain about it and implying that people just want money (a classic misogynist take about how women are golddiggers) makes this absolutely relevant. And it is almost entirely exclusive to men complaining about women.





Oh, I agree. Like blatantly ignoring that the question I asked was for the site owner specifically, that's why it was quoted for him. And also dismissing womens' experience. A man complains about a woman's behavior with very clear misogynist rhetoric, and a woman points out that there is certainly likely to be critical information left out of the story. That almost all women here who have experienced prior comparisons can tell you.

So how about if that's not an experience you have, you don't tone-police a woman about it? (And yes it's clear you don't, because this wouldn't be your response if it was).



hiccupx's response was dismissive (a lot like yours!) but not dragging. Nor did I deny I was projecting, I just agreed like yeah I could have framed it better but my message would have been the same. I said what I said on purpose. I know exactly what I was saying.

Nothing in the section you quoted was against anything or anyone. They were sincere questions. If hiccupx is willing to consider what I suggested, then that's actually a move to make things equal.

Additionally, these aren't "my own issues." You can't both say that you acknowledge women experience constant dehumanization and then scoff when we point out that these topics are absolutely related. Either you are aware this happens constantly (and actively participate in it) or you are not. They are not separate.

I'm not saying that bait and switching doesn't happen *ever*. Or that there aren't women in the community who have heard that places like these exist and these kind of transactions *can* occur and join specifically for that reason. I *am* saying that the vast majority of the time, when men experience this, there are multiple obvious things at play and they are conveniently excluded from the conversation: their own social skills, ability to gauge a fake profile, or literal assumption that they would get free content. There is absolutely an overlap with that and what I vented about. I've had enough conversations with men like that to promise you something else happened in that conversation that is OP's responsibility, whether or not he knows it.

And when they come here to the forums, it's always sympathy and blameshifting they want. Thankfully in this thread a couple of people have pointed out to OP that yeah, it's not very clear on your end and we don't have all the info, but largely that's not the response to these types of threads.

It's happened to me a few times also, chatting with another woman and she throws her pitch whether she's a content creator or just a little lost. It never bothers me. Ether I decline and we move on or we kindly part ways. And I'm a queer woman who is probably *more* frustrated with the low femme population than men are.

If OP had said "Man, I am really tired of this happening, can anyone offer pointers, am I missing something?" Totally different conversation. Instead it was clearly framed was "this woman dared to ask me for something when I'm not visibly offering anything or conveniently not providing any other context or detail." And not only do I see it in the forums but I get full on DMs and private chats about it *all the time* - and despite the fact that most men here *really* want to interact with women, they sure as heck hate listening to us when we provide feedback or offer proactive advice.

So yeah, if a man is going to complain about an interaction with a woman that almost always happens in this way, women absolutely should be able to provide the context of their experiences also.

Are you suggesting that in this day and age, it may be necessary to say up front on social profiles that you aren't interested in giving money to strangers on the internet, that you're actually seeking a genuine connection and not a financial transaction?

I am not disagreeing, I've just never thought of that.

In fact, though it seems burdensome and dystopian... it may not be a bad idea, in some form.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but I think I agree with you. I mean, the point about claiming to seek connection on a fetish forum while hiding your face out of "shame"... isn't easily discarded. I mean, reality is that society would frown on you whether you're personally ashamed or not, so hiding may just be prudent. But still, the spirit of your assertion seems very valid. If you cater to reality in hiding your face, you should accept the reality that people will do whatever they need to to make money, including intentions-catfishing. It's just just business in that way, they're not scamming, they're advertising and building report with potential customers.

Also, there's a good point touched on here, which is that the flipside to people asking others for money in exchange for content, is people asking for content in exchange for money, or, more often and somewhat ruder, asking for content for free, and then being abusive when it isn't taken well.

Just in terms of rounding out the discussion.

I think it’s pretty common advice for people dating online to be extremely up front with people before you get into things. Like if you’re looking for a partner for marriage and children, etc, say that early and often. You might rule out people who are looking for something different and avoid wasting both of your time.

So yeah, maybe that’s dystopian, but that’s where we are.

This is a tricky site because it’s a little bit of everything. If it was just a porn site, you would expect that most people would be buying or selling. If it was just a dating site you wouldn’t expect people to be just looking for friends or just be looking for free porn or erotica. But it’s all of that and it doesn’t do some of it well. So yeah, I think being upfront is important.

Good point

I have never asked for anything not once tbh I really wish those types would just use fans only sites specifically set up for that stuff. Nothing wrong with selling your art and by art I mean stories things like that but, then it's mentioned right up front and you don't have to purchase books if you don't want to. Otherwise imo you're doing nothing but being a prostitute and that's the way I see it. I can and will talk to anyone just don't expect naked or exposed anything from me and I won't tell you to go buy a whore. That you shouldn't just get for free.
And unless certain services were agreed on btw she(or even he) owes you nothing unless it was agreed to upfront Otherwise she doesn't owe you anything more than a woman you happen to send over a drink at a bar.