Well, welcome to this new forum.

As many of you know, this came about partly through requests on other threads, some of which have been moved here. Please feel free to revive and/or continue those discussions...

I'm a strong advocate of fat liberation, and I have published a little bit in that area as an academic. It's something I feel very strongly about for a lot of reasons, but rather than bang on about it here, I'm sure you'll get to see some of my thoughts as the discussions develop here.

In addition to the threads that are already here, we could talk about:
movement tactics and strategies;
disseminating information about all sorts of things, like how to find fat friendly doctors;
'coming out of the fridge' as fat lovers or as people with interests in feeding;
terminology;
discrimination;
or any of an infinite variety of topics.

Please come join us here to think and talk and play--this is a topic we all need to care about if we want more hopeful futures!

It doesn't get any better until you - *gently* - call them on that stuff. When someone says you need exercise, say 'I've been cleaning the stables all morning. You mean I need more than that?'

Or when the teacher talks to you like your stupid, say 'Does my body tell you something about the quality of my mind?'

Smile, say it softly and sweetly. But say it. It makes the whole thing feel totally differently.

I think two things.

A) There are treatments for gallstones, including surgery and sonar disruption (or whatever it's called), I think.

She needs to get therapy NOW. Eating disorders are very serious psychological conditions, and they should not be treated lightly. She needs therapy. If she is ever going to have a livable relationship with her body, she needs help getting there.

That's always the dilemma... On the one hand, fat people won't be activists unless they're confident and able to fight for change. And on the other hand, there won't be lots of confident fat people without a visible movement that argues for our rights.

I think we have to start from both directions at the same time, doing whatever we can to help the people we know be more confident AND doing what we can to make social change, from asking our places of work to have seating for very fat customers to writing to journalists or whoever to complain about fatphobic attitudes. Neither one is easy, but that's who all change happens, I think.

I'm so tired of this topic, and it comes up again and again and again. There are a LOT of FFAs on this site. We're visible and vocal. Is there someone within a 5 km radius of every member? no. I lived in NYC and didn't find that. But we are hear and visible and audible.

@Max--Your point about gaining and dieting being similar is what the fat acceptance folks disapprove of about us. Or what they say, at least. And I agree with you, some in our community are guilty of making themselves or the other person feel like THIS body isn't good enough until it changes. I think we need to discourage that as much as possible.

@Winter--I love that piece, and I do think she has a great point.

What I meant by my third point, which everyone seems to disagree with , is that if fat liberation is only for some fat people, and in particular only for people who are fat by accident, then it isn't real liberation. That's all.

Bravo, leaf.

I think there's another confusion we should separate here. I used to love wearing makeup, and if I do say so myself, I got very good at putting it on. But I stopped wearing makeup years ago. (I always own a full 'kit', for the rare occasions when I do, but not everyday.)

I stopped because I got to the point where I felt ugly without it. And I have a lot of friends who do, including one who does, in my opinion, a *terrible* job of her makeup, but won't leave the house without it under ANY circumstances.

My point is not just about makeup, though. We live in a society organised around profit, and making us feel ugly and self-conscious is profitable. We buy diets, diet meals, makeup, hair stuff, hair removal stuff, skin stuff, foot stuff, nail stuff, and on and on and on. There are whole industries organised around keeping us insecure. And while you can't drop out of that, I try as much as possible not to participate and not to reinforce it inside myself.

I have come across that idea before, Molly--have you written about it somewhere? I know I saw someone framing gaining as a body mod activity, but I can't remember who/where. It's a compelling idea.

But johnxyz's point sounds immediately correct to me, and it made me so sad. I know things are bad, and most news media are sensationalist and getting all the more so by the day, but some of those stories are really appalling. (Not to mention the OUTRAGE of the porn thing...)

I still think that 1) we need more conversations about fat acceptance, fat activism, and fat liberation in our communities, 2) there are a lot of people among us with strange and wrong ideas about fat and health, and 3) as much as I take johnxyz's point, I'm quite sure the fat liberation cannot begin to happen seriously until we're included in the package.

Moonchild said:
"Being fat, even being unhealthy does not entitle anyone to less respect from others."

Juicy says:

Moonchild, I love you.