That's always the dilemma... On the one hand, fat people won't be activists unless they're confident and able to fight for change. And on the other hand, there won't be lots of confident fat people without a visible movement that argues for our rights.

I think we have to start from both directions at the same time, doing whatever we can to help the people we know be more confident AND doing what we can to make social change, from asking our places of work to have seating for very fat customers to writing to journalists or whoever to complain about fatphobic attitudes. Neither one is easy, but that's who all change happens, I think.

I'm so tired of this topic, and it comes up again and again and again. There are a LOT of FFAs on this site. We're visible and vocal. Is there someone within a 5 km radius of every member? no. I lived in NYC and didn't find that. But we are hear and visible and audible.

@Max--Your point about gaining and dieting being similar is what the fat acceptance folks disapprove of about us. Or what they say, at least. And I agree with you, some in our community are guilty of making themselves or the other person feel like THIS body isn't good enough until it changes. I think we need to discourage that as much as possible.

@Winter--I love that piece, and I do think she has a great point.

What I meant by my third point, which everyone seems to disagree with , is that if fat liberation is only for some fat people, and in particular only for people who are fat by accident, then it isn't real liberation. That's all.

Bravo, leaf.

I think there's another confusion we should separate here. I used to love wearing makeup, and if I do say so myself, I got very good at putting it on. But I stopped wearing makeup years ago. (I always own a full 'kit', for the rare occasions when I do, but not everyday.)

I stopped because I got to the point where I felt ugly without it. And I have a lot of friends who do, including one who does, in my opinion, a *terrible* job of her makeup, but won't leave the house without it under ANY circumstances.

My point is not just about makeup, though. We live in a society organised around profit, and making us feel ugly and self-conscious is profitable. We buy diets, diet meals, makeup, hair stuff, hair removal stuff, skin stuff, foot stuff, nail stuff, and on and on and on. There are whole industries organised around keeping us insecure. And while you can't drop out of that, I try as much as possible not to participate and not to reinforce it inside myself.

I have come across that idea before, Molly--have you written about it somewhere? I know I saw someone framing gaining as a body mod activity, but I can't remember who/where. It's a compelling idea.

But johnxyz's point sounds immediately correct to me, and it made me so sad. I know things are bad, and most news media are sensationalist and getting all the more so by the day, but some of those stories are really appalling. (Not to mention the OUTRAGE of the porn thing...)

I still think that 1) we need more conversations about fat acceptance, fat activism, and fat liberation in our communities, 2) there are a lot of people among us with strange and wrong ideas about fat and health, and 3) as much as I take johnxyz's point, I'm quite sure the fat liberation cannot begin to happen seriously until we're included in the package.

Moonchild said:
"Being fat, even being unhealthy does not entitle anyone to less respect from others."

Juicy says:

Moonchild, I love you.

My own sense of this is that the fat acceptance movement focuses on the notion that people aren't fat by choice. As it happens, I think that's generally right--people are or get fat for all kinds of reasons, not just the way we do. In fact, more of my fat comes from trying really hard NOT to be fat than the # of pounds that are intentional.

But they're running the line that they can't be blamed for anything, so people should accept them as they are--after all, it's not their fault.

Seems to me--and I say this knowing full well it will make some people angry--that is the exact same logic LGBT folk use when they insist that their sexuality is genetic. It may well be, and I'm totally sure fat is on some people, But the problem is, the second you insist that your identity is genetic, you have to disavow anyone who joins your ranks by choice. I think that's the main reason the size acceptance folks are so nasty about us.