A) All of you who didn't complain about all the other sin taxes? This is your Rev. Niemoller moment. (Please do feel free to google him.)

Very fat people have many serious limitations, and despite whatever you think, not everyone got there voluntarily.

C) I wish all the people who want to live without any social net would start a country somewhere and go there. Or divide the US into three or four countries and let them have one or two of the regions.

D) It is eminently clear that there is more bang for the buck, e.g. healthcare, in a state provided system than in the private systems. All the stats say so--US health care spending per capita is the highest in the industrialised world, but the lowest percentage of people have reliable care. Public schools are the same, as are roads, etc.

E) If you want public services, you need to tax something. If everyone is unwilling to pay sufficient income tax to fund the basics, then the weakest people--generally the poorest--will be taxed extra to pay for services.

THAT explains your sugary drinks tax.

/rant over

I've asked guys out before, and I'll say this. It has worked really well when it's been a purely sexual invitation, but not ever about dating.

And I think scroogey's right--I take Moreover's point that if men reacted to rejection by never asking again, dating would stop. But given that a) we (women) are taught to hinge our self-esteem on being desirable and being asked out, and as fat women our self-esteem takes multiple hits every day from the culture at large, and plenty of hits from 'friends' in the younger years--and sometimes even into adulthood!--it makes it a lot harder to feel good about making a first move.

I might feel more able to take a chance at a BBW/FA event, though...

As Ruby said, I think these issues are very very complicated. Overdetermined, or multifactorial, or whatever synonym you prefer.

Some parents are genuinely bad parents. Some badly behaved children are badly behaved for reasons other than bad parenting. Some events you see in public are routine for that family; others are aberrations. Some children simply can't keep still, so leashes are necessary, but some uses of leashes are not at all necessary and just laziness.

And on and on.

As for number of children, again, very complicated. It has to do with money, time, personalities of parents AND children, and so on.

HOT TIP FOR THE DAY: There is no formula.

Truce. Back to your corners.

I say that not only as a mod, but as someone who can feel both sides. On the one hand, I've seen too many people, especially skinny men, who don't want to the think about the realities immobility brings. And I've heard too many ugly stories from very fat women about how some feeders have treated them.

On the other hand, as someone who has thought about this very seriously, I know that many people on this forum have also given it very serious consideration. To be addressed as if they are thoughtless and cavalier is unfair and it feels like disrespect. I understand that, too.

I think both sides are making valid and not mutually exclusive points.

Finally, I think everyone needs to remember that respect requires assuming the best of each other, not the worst. Give Tubby the benefit of the doubt and presume he was serious about asking people to try it out, not just preaching. Tubby, if you give members who post here frequently the courtesy of assuming they are thinking, intelligent people, then perhaps your word choices might change your tone a bit.

I think the devil, as is so frequently true, is in the details of the tone of what all of you write, not in the basic ideas.

A lot has to do with age. If it's hard for you to gain in your late teens and early 20s, wait and see what happens when you turn 30. Surely worthwhile to keep eating now, though, since you're still stretching your capacity, even if you aren't gaining.

My own sense of one food to help you gain would be your favourite snack munchies. I have bowls of nuts and raisins and Bombay mix and so on everywhere. When I'm gaining, I eat pretty unconsciously all the time, just cuz there's always food right near my hand.

As something of an anomaly in this conversation--I've been married for 24 years (yes, to the same person), we have never been strictly monogamous and are currently not living together--I thought I might weigh in, as it were.

We fell madly in love almost at first sight. And while the years since then--31 in total--have been stormy, we have always loved each other. BUT, there have been years of not speaking, and certainly years of struggling, and living apart for work, and now living apart for me to explore the intense feeding desires I've had all my life.

What I mean is this--if you go into a relationship imagining it will be sweetness and light and hearts and romance, you're probably going to be quite disappointed. But if you go in thinking 'This matters to me, and I'm going to try really hard to stick it out,' and then you put real energy into talking to your partner about your feelings, there's every reason to believe you can make it work.

Unless, of course, you choose badly, which we've ALL done at some point or other.

I don't have pets now, but had a cat and a beautiful red albino called Curly. She stayed in the US when we moved to the UK, just as our cat did. Curly looks a lot like the snake below, but with more white.