Dear ladies of ff
FAMGM:
Social structures foster sexism.
Munchies:
Social structures are neutral. They neither encourage nor discourage sexism. You have confused social structures with value systems.
FAMGM:
Eh, no. Social structures at every level across all Western societies foster sexism to varying degrees.
Munchies:
The term "social structure" is so broad that it encompasses everything - even groups actively working against sexism. That's all I'm getting at. While most people refer to social structures on the macro scale, the term also applies to the meso and micro scales. This would, inadvertently, include anti-sexism spaces as well.
The issue isn't social structures so much as it is a complex blend of social values and institutions. The act of having a social structure isn't inherently one thing or another. It is the values imbued within the social structure that makes it sexist.
FAMGM:
And that is entirely correct. I wasn’t saying that all social structures do. By “social structures foster sexism” I was making a deliberately terse point, because that was in essence all that I understood OP to be actually saying.
Social structures foster sexism.
Munchies:
Social structures are neutral. They neither encourage nor discourage sexism. You have confused social structures with value systems.
FAMGM:
Eh, no. Social structures at every level across all Western societies foster sexism to varying degrees.
Munchies:
The term "social structure" is so broad that it encompasses everything - even groups actively working against sexism. That's all I'm getting at. While most people refer to social structures on the macro scale, the term also applies to the meso and micro scales. This would, inadvertently, include anti-sexism spaces as well.
The issue isn't social structures so much as it is a complex blend of social values and institutions. The act of having a social structure isn't inherently one thing or another. It is the values imbued within the social structure that makes it sexist.
FAMGM:
And that is entirely correct. I wasn’t saying that all social structures do. By “social structures foster sexism” I was making a deliberately terse point, because that was in essence all that I understood OP to be actually saying.
Our current one definitely does! Even previous ones have! And my point is that it won't go away unless we alter our socioeconomic system as drastically as the French did in their revolution, or the Bolseviks did in the soviet.
And we have to take into account aaaaaaaaaaaall these parameters (patriarchy, classes {workers, capitalists}, matket, enviroment catastrophe ) and build something that can effectively run without these! Many models exist! And some of them have been even tested! Anyways if in any case it does interest you, feel free to dm me to talk about! I'd love that!
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Calling them out isn't gonna do much. I'm trying to say that, okay call them out, and then try to actually explain to them why what they're doing is bad as well! Because it harms others! That last bit is the importand one! And im trying to do that! It's not even uncomfortable, but it's very hard to achieve!
But after you've done the first bit, it's a great chance to also try to educate them! Don't let that chance go to waste!
But after you've done the first bit, it's a great chance to also try to educate them! Don't let that chance go to waste!
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Enas:
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
Munchies:
You are correct that patriarchy isn't the source of all society's ills. However, it's an enormous leap from "Wow, women sure do have a hard time" to "We should abolish the system because it hurts everyone and rebuild it from the ground up."
I don't care if you are into anarchy, but how will that help systematized patriarchy? Because patriarchy has been around far longer than capitalism. Abolishing capitalism would not abolish patriarchy.
As I said before, patriarchy is both an individual and a systemic issue. Tackling one without the other is ineffective.
You are focusing on too much at once, and it's making you directionless. You are also not keeping in mind who your audience is. This is a fetish site. People come here to escape and be horny. While there's always space to discuss treating people as equals, no one wants to discuss politics or economics. Even the numerous posts discussing gender issues will only discuss them in the context of the site and fetish.
So, if you want to have these deep, complex discussions, it would be best to do it on a better platform.
Enas:
I get this! but I'm also saying that in this site there could be a place for people to learn to have, if not empathy, then at least some more basic stuff like respect and patience.
This should be done in a socialist basis, in other words, it's goal must be to be as useful as possible!
I don't think any part of what i just wrote is irrelevant to this site! I
I just wish to see that, because with that other attitude of "everyone is responsible for themselves" we're clearly not making any step at all!
Munchies:
Enas, if you want to make a difference, then you can start by being empathetic towards people. Based on our previous conversations, you struggle to do that. Once you've worked on yourself, then you can turn outwards and talk to other people.
Enas:
How do you arrive to the conclusion that what i struggle id bring empathetic to people?
Seriously, im asking because what i find myself struggling i think, is communication! I hope i dont bother you by asking im just left really confused!
Munchies:
Have you forgotten all of the sexist and racist things you've said to me? The boundaries you've crossed because you don't think they matter? How you've actually said that empathy and respect aren't necessarily important?
Because I haven't.
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
Munchies:
You are correct that patriarchy isn't the source of all society's ills. However, it's an enormous leap from "Wow, women sure do have a hard time" to "We should abolish the system because it hurts everyone and rebuild it from the ground up."
I don't care if you are into anarchy, but how will that help systematized patriarchy? Because patriarchy has been around far longer than capitalism. Abolishing capitalism would not abolish patriarchy.
As I said before, patriarchy is both an individual and a systemic issue. Tackling one without the other is ineffective.
You are focusing on too much at once, and it's making you directionless. You are also not keeping in mind who your audience is. This is a fetish site. People come here to escape and be horny. While there's always space to discuss treating people as equals, no one wants to discuss politics or economics. Even the numerous posts discussing gender issues will only discuss them in the context of the site and fetish.
So, if you want to have these deep, complex discussions, it would be best to do it on a better platform.
Enas:
I get this! but I'm also saying that in this site there could be a place for people to learn to have, if not empathy, then at least some more basic stuff like respect and patience.
This should be done in a socialist basis, in other words, it's goal must be to be as useful as possible!
I don't think any part of what i just wrote is irrelevant to this site! I
I just wish to see that, because with that other attitude of "everyone is responsible for themselves" we're clearly not making any step at all!
Munchies:
Enas, if you want to make a difference, then you can start by being empathetic towards people. Based on our previous conversations, you struggle to do that. Once you've worked on yourself, then you can turn outwards and talk to other people.
Enas:
How do you arrive to the conclusion that what i struggle id bring empathetic to people?
Seriously, im asking because what i find myself struggling i think, is communication! I hope i dont bother you by asking im just left really confused!
Munchies:
Have you forgotten all of the sexist and racist things you've said to me? The boundaries you've crossed because you don't think they matter? How you've actually said that empathy and respect aren't necessarily important?
Because I haven't.
Alright now i get why you think that.
But, for one, you've based that on what i *told* you (and that's obviously where my bad communication might ruin my point)
Also you're propably remember it a bit too blurred. I think empathy is the most importand thing in humans.
And second, that was what? 3 months ago? I've been changing a lot during these last, grinding 3 months!
Edit: i apologize if i sound mad or something, im just trying to make my point clear 😅
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Munchies:
As a woman of color, I'm not sure I agree with your statement concerning Western societies being the best form of civilization. Especially since, in my country, my rights are being stripped away. I don't want to live somewhere else, but I know that my living situation is not the best.
Curiousv:
Which rights did you previously have that are now being "stripped away"?
And please tell me one other time period or other civilization which you would rather have at your location, instead of the current one.
I never claimed there is nothing to improve. I was only against the idea of demolishing everything and being so conceited as to believe to be able to build a better one.
Uuuh, the French revolution?
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Enas:
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
Munchies:
You are correct that patriarchy isn't the source of all society's ills. However, it's an enormous leap from "Wow, women sure do have a hard time" to "We should abolish the system because it hurts everyone and rebuild it from the ground up."
I don't care if you are into anarchy, but how will that help systematized patriarchy? Because patriarchy has been around far longer than capitalism. Abolishing capitalism would not abolish patriarchy.
As I said before, patriarchy is both an individual and a systemic issue. Tackling one without the other is ineffective.
You are focusing on too much at once, and it's making you directionless. You are also not keeping in mind who your audience is. This is a fetish site. People come here to escape and be horny. While there's always space to discuss treating people as equals, no one wants to discuss politics or economics. Even the numerous posts discussing gender issues will only discuss them in the context of the site and fetish.
So, if you want to have these deep, complex discussions, it would be best to do it on a better platform.
Enas:
I get this! but I'm also saying that in this site there could be a place for people to learn to have, if not empathy, then at least some more basic stuff like respect and patience.
This should be done in a socialist basis, in other words, it's goal must be to be as useful as possible!
I don't think any part of what i just wrote is irrelevant to this site! I
I just wish to see that, because with that other attitude of "everyone is responsible for themselves" we're clearly not making any step at all!
Munchies:
Enas, if you want to make a difference, then you can start by being empathetic towards people. Based on our previous conversations, you struggle to do that. Once you've worked on yourself, then you can turn outwards and talk to other people.
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
Munchies:
You are correct that patriarchy isn't the source of all society's ills. However, it's an enormous leap from "Wow, women sure do have a hard time" to "We should abolish the system because it hurts everyone and rebuild it from the ground up."
I don't care if you are into anarchy, but how will that help systematized patriarchy? Because patriarchy has been around far longer than capitalism. Abolishing capitalism would not abolish patriarchy.
As I said before, patriarchy is both an individual and a systemic issue. Tackling one without the other is ineffective.
You are focusing on too much at once, and it's making you directionless. You are also not keeping in mind who your audience is. This is a fetish site. People come here to escape and be horny. While there's always space to discuss treating people as equals, no one wants to discuss politics or economics. Even the numerous posts discussing gender issues will only discuss them in the context of the site and fetish.
So, if you want to have these deep, complex discussions, it would be best to do it on a better platform.
Enas:
I get this! but I'm also saying that in this site there could be a place for people to learn to have, if not empathy, then at least some more basic stuff like respect and patience.
This should be done in a socialist basis, in other words, it's goal must be to be as useful as possible!
I don't think any part of what i just wrote is irrelevant to this site! I
I just wish to see that, because with that other attitude of "everyone is responsible for themselves" we're clearly not making any step at all!
Munchies:
Enas, if you want to make a difference, then you can start by being empathetic towards people. Based on our previous conversations, you struggle to do that. Once you've worked on yourself, then you can turn outwards and talk to other people.
How do you arrive to the conclusion that what i struggle id bring empathetic to people?
Seriously, im asking because what i find myself struggling i think, is communication! I hope i dont bother you by asking im just left really confused!
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Enas:
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
Munchies:
You are correct that patriarchy isn't the source of all society's ills. However, it's an enormous leap from "Wow, women sure do have a hard time" to "We should abolish the system because it hurts everyone and rebuild it from the ground up."
I don't care if you are into anarchy, but how will that help systematized patriarchy? Because patriarchy has been around far longer than capitalism. Abolishing capitalism would not abolish patriarchy.
As I said before, patriarchy is both an individual and a systemic issue. Tackling one without the other is ineffective.
You are focusing on too much at once, and it's making you directionless. You are also not keeping in mind who your audience is. This is a fetish site. People come here to escape and be horny. While there's always space to discuss treating people as equals, no one wants to discuss politics or economics. Even the numerous posts discussing gender issues will only discuss them in the context of the site and fetish.
So, if you want to have these deep, complex discussions, it would be best to do it on a better platform.
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
Munchies:
You are correct that patriarchy isn't the source of all society's ills. However, it's an enormous leap from "Wow, women sure do have a hard time" to "We should abolish the system because it hurts everyone and rebuild it from the ground up."
I don't care if you are into anarchy, but how will that help systematized patriarchy? Because patriarchy has been around far longer than capitalism. Abolishing capitalism would not abolish patriarchy.
As I said before, patriarchy is both an individual and a systemic issue. Tackling one without the other is ineffective.
You are focusing on too much at once, and it's making you directionless. You are also not keeping in mind who your audience is. This is a fetish site. People come here to escape and be horny. While there's always space to discuss treating people as equals, no one wants to discuss politics or economics. Even the numerous posts discussing gender issues will only discuss them in the context of the site and fetish.
So, if you want to have these deep, complex discussions, it would be best to do it on a better platform.
I get this! but I'm also saying that in this site there could be a place for people to learn to have, if not empathy, then at least some more basic stuff like respect and patience.
This should be done in a socialist basis, in other words, it's goal must be to be as useful as possible!
I don't think any part of what i just wrote is irrelevant to this site! I
I just wish to see that, because with that other attitude of "everyone is responsible for themselves" we're clearly not making any step at all!
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
The purpose of the forums is to educate, right? There could be more people seeking to educate, and to do it in an effective way. That will have some result. That's why i wrote this thread in the first place! Regardless, i hope that you'll find what you need, comrade! (:
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Enas:
Patriarchy (systematized) is still not the entier problem. It's definitely on a deeper level than the end results, but i think this goes even deeper. For starters a lot of the jobs today are overworking their workers. And when a father returns from work overworked, he might not exactly have the energy left to also be a decent parent. Same with mothers that work on these kind of jobs.
And then there is school! Which is either public, or it's a business that looks to earn money. And in the context of our current socioeconomic system, these businesses that we put our children in, are trying to maximize profits. This always leads down to a worse quality of education. And the educational system, no matter the lessons, is an institution initially designed to produce efficient workers. Not decent human beings!
Im telling you the roots go really deep!
AaronM:
I think I get what what you're saying. Capitalism has become soo efficient at exploiting workers (us) that we might find ourselves contemplating doing some mighty underhanded stuff just to avoid...y'know....dying. Or loosing the house or medical coverage.
That certainly isn't patriarchy...and you can't just call it out to make it all better unfortunately.
Patriarchy (systematized) is still not the entier problem. It's definitely on a deeper level than the end results, but i think this goes even deeper. For starters a lot of the jobs today are overworking their workers. And when a father returns from work overworked, he might not exactly have the energy left to also be a decent parent. Same with mothers that work on these kind of jobs.
And then there is school! Which is either public, or it's a business that looks to earn money. And in the context of our current socioeconomic system, these businesses that we put our children in, are trying to maximize profits. This always leads down to a worse quality of education. And the educational system, no matter the lessons, is an institution initially designed to produce efficient workers. Not decent human beings!
Im telling you the roots go really deep!
AaronM:
I think I get what what you're saying. Capitalism has become soo efficient at exploiting workers (us) that we might find ourselves contemplating doing some mighty underhanded stuff just to avoid...y'know....dying. Or loosing the house or medical coverage.
That certainly isn't patriarchy...and you can't just call it out to make it all better unfortunately.
I'm trying to call it out, for people to think that, oh no, it's not you, it's the entier ship (society) that's going down!
But people don't wanna hear. They think that there is an easy solution. That we can add or change something in the system and it'll solve our problems like magic.
There is no easy solution out of this, especially when even education is only just one more industry for capitalists to profit from.
Yet people instead of confronting this reality, they stick their heads in the sand and pretend that the problem isn't there...
Getting rid of patriarchy isn't going to solve much on its own. A total restruction of society from the bottom is vital! To make it a better place for goodness sake!
Socialism in other words
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Patriarchy (systematized) is still not the entier problem. It's definitely on a deeper level than the end results, but i think this goes even deeper. For starters a lot of the jobs today are overworking their workers. And when a father returns from work overworked, he might not exactly have the energy left to also be a decent parent. Same with mothers that work on these kind of jobs.
And then there is school! Which is either public, or it's a business that looks to earn money. And in the context of our current socioeconomic system, these businesses that we put our children in, are trying to maximize profits. This always leads down to a worse quality of education. And the educational system, no matter the lessons, is an institution initially designed to produce efficient workers. Not decent human beings!
Im telling you the roots go really deep!
And then there is school! Which is either public, or it's a business that looks to earn money. And in the context of our current socioeconomic system, these businesses that we put our children in, are trying to maximize profits. This always leads down to a worse quality of education. And the educational system, no matter the lessons, is an institution initially designed to produce efficient workers. Not decent human beings!
Im telling you the roots go really deep!
2 years
Dear ladies of ff
Today i got a little taste of the horror that our society is turning into. What you may have to go through sometimes. Rudeness and sexism you may call it.
I just want to do something about it by providing some food for thought.
Its going to get dark but please try to think about it, calmly.
Its common knowledge in our days that lots of people (the majority men, but i won't stick to that) harass other people. This most of the time, in places like FF happens in a more sexual manner.
And for that im sorry. It's a human need to be treated with empathy and love. Instead you are often used for other people's sexual pleasure.
I wish that was the problem! It could be so easy to solve it. But i think the reality is much, much worse. Our society produces these kind of people. The roots go deep, and they can't be ripped of without ripping apart the structure of our society itself. Most people don't even want this to happen
Its sad that we don't have a good place to be helped with growing up. Today's notion that you should take full responsibility of yourself, pretending that you have absolute authority of even that, is sadly a widespread notion.
Please consider ripping the route of the problem!
I beg you
I just want to do something about it by providing some food for thought.
Its going to get dark but please try to think about it, calmly.
Its common knowledge in our days that lots of people (the majority men, but i won't stick to that) harass other people. This most of the time, in places like FF happens in a more sexual manner.
And for that im sorry. It's a human need to be treated with empathy and love. Instead you are often used for other people's sexual pleasure.
I wish that was the problem! It could be so easy to solve it. But i think the reality is much, much worse. Our society produces these kind of people. The roots go deep, and they can't be ripped of without ripping apart the structure of our society itself. Most people don't even want this to happen
Its sad that we don't have a good place to be helped with growing up. Today's notion that you should take full responsibility of yourself, pretending that you have absolute authority of even that, is sadly a widespread notion.
Please consider ripping the route of the problem!
I beg you
2 years
