I wouldn't either. I personally don't think someone is shallow if they lose attraction to their partner. Munchies said that.



I don't treat groups like a monolith. I understand that a group like women is hugely varied in every regard. That's why I'm always careful to use words like "many", "tend to", etc. I personally think it's ok to notice patterns of behavior in groups of people, just as long as you understand that there will always be a lot of exceptions. It also doesn't address the cause, because social conditioning could play a part. Societal gender roles are one example of a pattern of behavior that is different between men and women, but those roles are expressed differently between individuals, and some reject it completely. Those people are the exceptions, they are in the minority, so they get left out of such discussions, mostly for the sake of brevity. Including such disclaimers every time can really bog down a conversation. I just assume that most people are mentally mature enough to understand this basic fact about human nature.



What I was originally saying was that men and women, on average, have different factors that they find sexually attractive in a partner (not valuable, just sexy). For men, a huge part of that is physical. For women, different factors are more attractive. Because of that, a direct 1 v 1 comparison is impossible, because if someone's partner lost the factors that men like, women would still be attracted to something else about them. What I was attempting to do is provide a functional equivalent, where her partner lost most of the factors that women are attracted to. Keep in mind the inverse is also true. In the depression scenario, if the genders were reversed, most men would also be frustrated and might not tolerate it either, but they would still find her sexy as long as her appearance didn't change too much.



In that case, I don't think OP is shallow at all. In his first post, he said he sometimes sees people he's physically attracted to, but doesn't like "their personality, morale or view on life". He said he does meet women who he's not attracted to, but "with whom I share at least some intellectual and psycological common ground, and where things are fun and drama free." The entire point of his thread was to ask about the logistics of dating someone you like as a person but don't find attractive. In the scenario you gave where she lost weight, I answered that "he would probably still be in love with her and care about her deeply, and would still value the marriage" but would essentially have erectile dysfunction when he's with her. Does this sound like someone who only cares about outward appearance to you?

The reason this discussion focuses so heavily on sexual attraction is because he's still in the stage where he's looking for a partner. At that point, attraction is like the base foundation that qualifies someone for possibly dating. If a guy is trying to meet women in the club, he'll scan the environment looking at people. His eye will be caught by someone sexy, and he'll approach. If a guy approaches a woman and is totally unappealing off rip, she will probably dismiss him quickly. If both find each other attractive, then a conversation can take place and you can build from there onto other things.

Shallowness is seen as a bad thing, it's considered a character flaw. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but when someone points out another's flaws with such direct language, it's always going to be perceived as shaming. Especially in text, when tone of voice can't be heard.

In the case you gave, he would probably still be in love with her and care about her deeply, and would still value the marriage. However, most men's sexual attraction is based either on physical looks or sex acts if they involve a kink. If both of those are completely gone, he may not feel aroused at all. In that case, he may need to find work-arounds so he can still maintain a sex life, and basically just close his eyes and think of England.

Women seem to have a more multi-factored list of things that they find attractive in a partner, so if he lacks in one area, there's still other areas to fall back on. Here's an equivalent for women: Let's say he gets married like you said. Then one day, he gets fired and refuses to look for any work, he just wants her to be the sole breadwinner, so that he can spend all his time playing video games and smoking weed. He doesn't want to take over the housework either. Anything that distracts from his gaming is met with frustration. That includes showering, so he starts neglecting his hygiene. On top of that, he gets fat when she likes fit guys, and he grows a weird beard. These are all symptoms of severe depression, but he stubbornly refuses to get help or talk to her about it. Do you think she would still find him sexy?

Ok, so there are only 3 viable options that I see for you.

1. Leave feedism in the realm of fantasy only. If you stopped looking for feedees, I'm sure that you can find a normal BBW. I guarantee you, there are fat women in Sweden somewhere. If she eventually loses weight and slims down, you could always get viagra. If you find yourself in a sexless marriage, that's pretty much a guarantee for unhappiness for both you.

2. Leave Sweden. Move the US, we probably have more feedees per capita than anywhere else in the world. It won't be easy. You'll have to save as much money as you can, it might even take you over a year to save for a one-way ticket and a month's living expenses. Arrange to get a job before you leave. Then, part ways with your friends and family and start fresh.

3. Don't date. Learn to accept living alone. You can still have friends of course, even with women. But you will slowly grow old, never getting to experience a romantic connection or have a family. Year by year, you will become more depressed, more bitter, more filled with regret. That's how the rest of your life will go if you stay stuck in one place.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes there are no good options. You just have to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

@Munchies,
By your definition, 99% of men are probably shallow. We're just wired differently. Maybe that's a bad thing, but it's outside of our control. Shaming someone for not being able to get an erection, for whatever reason, is not helpful.

Honestly, I still think this is your best option. It may be worth examining why it didn't work for you and what you can do differently, rather than giving up. Here's what you can do if you're really serious about finding someone and willing to put in the work: First, ignore the social media side of it completely, and just use it as a search engine for profiles. In your search filters, only use two: female and "near me". Dozens of profiles will come up, arranged by distance. You can bookmark the search results if you're using a browser, since you'll be coming back to it.

Next, you need to open every profile on the list one by one, and read each one carefully, including each tab. Also, look down at her post history and read some of those. If you see something that disqualifies her, like being in a relationship, or not looking for men, or only looking for chatting, or she sounds annoying in her posts, then you move on to the next. Reason why you don't put these in your search filters is because some people leave it blank, and you'd be filtering them out too. If you see someone you'd consider going out with, follow her or put her name down in a list or something. Keep going until you've done this for every single profile from the results.

Then, go down your list and message each one you saved one by one. Don't copy and paste the same thing, or only say "hi" in your first message. If what she wrote in her profile explicitly focuses on kink, you can comment on that, otherwise it's better to comment on something else you have in common, and just have a normal conversation (maybe with some subtle flirting). At some point, you can pivot to asking her what she's looking for on the site and go from there. Do this with only a few profiles at a time, since trying to juggle a bunch of conversations at once is a bad idea.

This is a lot of work, and will probably take several weeks to complete. If you've gone through everybody and still had no luck making a connection, only then can you say that you've tried everything and failed. Personally, I haven't needed to be this thorough, but that's because I live near a major city with fat American women, lol.

Regarding the homosexual comparison, I think he was making a partial analogy. He's comparing one aspect to it, but not others. Actually, this is probably the case for most analogies. If I compared being gay to being lesbian, there are ways that's an apt comparison, but also a lot of differences in the experience because of gender. In fact, if you want an exact 1:1 comparison for anything, it would be impossible because everything is only ever exactly like itself (if that makes sense). Like, a sweater vest is sort of like a vest, and sort of like a sweater, but it's not exactly like either one. On the other hand, people here might consider it an inappropriate comparison on moral grounds, as in it's not incorrect but it's distasteful, but that's a different conversation to the one people are having.

I think that for most men, physical attraction to some degree is a prerequisite for developing a romantic connection in the first place. You may enjoy the company of a thin woman with a great personality, but you might not ever feel that romantic spark. You do have some options, just not great ones.

Sexuality is a huge component of relationships for everybody, including women. If you don't want to go there, most women won't be interested, with the exception of asexuals. However, asexual women are even rarer than fat women. If you do find someone like that though, you will probably still be looking for a sexual outlet, while she may want monogamy.

In theory, polyamorous women are an option since she can get her sexual needs met by someone else. However, just like monogamous women, sexuality is still an important part of what they desire from their relationships, so poly women probably still won't be interested.

If you're looking for a friend with benefits but the only benefit is cuddling, I think that's something you might be able to find as long as you are clear about what you want from the beginning. However, I think that most women who are actively looking for a long-term monogamous relationship probably won't be interested since time spent with you is time not spent dating someone serious. Plus, women who are oriented towards committed relationships know that their partner would probably look at their friendship with you as a form of cheating.

Earlier, you compared your preference for fat women to a sexual orientation like being gay, and said you are as attracted to thin women as you are to men as a straight guy. If that's the case, what do you think about pursuing this type of relationship with a man? Bromances are a thing, apparently. You might have an easier time finding a gay guy who will respect your boundaries, especially since it seems like most gay guys prefer open relationships. I imagine it would be just like a platonic friendship, but with more physical contact.

OR, and hear me out, you could try dating women you're attracted to? It may not be easy to meet them in your daily life, but that's what online dating is for. If you haven't tried Feabie for this, I recommend it, since I've had some success there myself. You'll be able to meet people you'd never bump into in real life. If you can't find someone local who you like, you may need to think about looking farther afield. That may mean having a long-distance relationship until you can figure out the logistics of relocating.

"I myself was not particularly autogynephilic at the beginning"
Timeline doesn't matter. Not everyone has the experience of discovering their "true sexuality", many people genuinely start as one thing, and then change into something else over time, sometimes more than once.

"But purposely gaining weight while being FA may be a kind of fetishistic transvestism."
Maybe for you, but not for others. You're projecting again. FAs who end up finding they have a gainer side say that it happened for any number of different reasons, but trying to become the opposite sex is one I've heard very rarely.

"I don’t know if I ever met a woman as beautiful as the one I see in the mirror"
You're actually just describing autogynephilia.

"I think that fat fetishists have no interest to get laid, even if they first think they have."
Holy shit, so now everyone is secretly asexual too? And then according to you FAs have no desire for a relationship? Literally just look at the personals section, and you'll see that's bullshit. The vast majority of people on earth want to be in an intimate relationship. Stop trying to psychoanalyze people's sexuality and genders, because you're clearly bad at it. If someone says they like a specific thing for a specific reason, maybe just believe them? You don't actually have mind reading powers.

"Living as a fat woman themselves may be the best life for which fat fetishists are made"
Who the hell do you think you are to decide that for them?

"I see no interest to do it since I don’t like sex, even less with men."
You're contradicting yourself. In your first post you wrote:
"It disgusted me at the beginning, but I got used to it.", which indicates you are having sex with men, correct?

"I live what they call 'the carousel'"
You've just contradicted yourself again in the same post. The "cock carousel" refers specifically to women who have a lot of casual hookups instead of wanting long-term relationships.

"For global networks like Fantasyfeeder, I watch the statistics"
Statistics don't dictate people's lives, they're just a record of how often something occurs. Even though it's a sausage party, you can still stand out from the rest and get what you need if you go about it the right way. Also, I wouldn't recommend Fantasy Feeder for dating, apps like Feabie and WooPlus are better.

"it is in fact sexual SM content"
Does everything just look like a secret fetish to you? Mysogyny is prevalent within redpill communities, but I've seen enough of their content to know that they focus mainly on dating strategies, same with passport bros. They speak only vaguely about sexuality, and describe mostly vanilla activities. MGTOW doesn't even do that, their philosophy is to avoid contact with women altogether because they're motivated by fear. Incels of course talk about how sex will never happen. Perhaps a few might be turned on by emotional sadism, but most don't talk the same way as people in fetish communities, they speak with contempt. Even in the link you posted.

"I don't know if there are cis and trans people after the definition of transgender ideology."
Bruh. Of course they exist, people describe how they feel about gender all the time. Stop assuming everyone is lying.

"All adult people can transition if they wish."
Yes they can, and most who do are transgender. There are some people who become convinced that transitioning will be the solution to their mental health problems, only to discover they weren't actually trans in the first place, and now they can't undo the permanent changes to their body. Some have described it as getting a "sexual lobotomy". Detransitioners used to be very rare, but have since grown a lot. The detransitioner subreddit alone has over 50,000 members, and that's not including their other communities and discords. The philosophy you're proposing is literally causing more human misery to exist in the world.

What's particularly troubling about this is that there exists a (thankfully small) number of trans people and chasers online who believe that in every cisgender person, there's a trans person waiting to come out, and that the world would be better if everyone did. They will do and say anything in their power to make that happen through lying and gaslighting, using the very same arguments that OP is making. They call cis people "eggs" and when they're convinced to transition, they've "hatched". This is disturbing and predatory behavior that preys on emotionally vulnerable people who are struggling with their mental health.

I have receipts (CW transphobia):

Very true, I forgot to mention that. They could be having a bad day from work and want to be left alone. They could be asleep, and then your message gets buried in their inbox. It could have nothing to do with you at all.

Oh boy, where do I even begin?
Your claim that all straight men have autogynephilia deep down is just completely absurd projection. I promise you they don't. It's wild that you suggest transition as a strategy for lonely cisgender men to get laid. Why would they want to go through a huge multi-year ordeal (including re-training themselves to move and sound feminine at all times), medicalize themselves for life, expose themselves to huge potential risks and complications, and give themselves gender dysphoria in the process? One of those big risks is losing all sex drive or becoming impotent like yourself, which would totally defeat the purpose of the entire exercise for them, right? If forcing yourself to get used to having sex with other guys is part of the process, then surely it would be much easier to force yourself to just be bisexual instead of going through all this effort to attract straight guys right? Stop trying to gaslight cis people into thinking they're trans. Detransitioners are a growing problem for a reason. Go hatch eggs somewhere else.

I'm not going to insult incels or scold them for misogyny, because I think that's unproductive, and I know it comes from a place of genuine emotional pain and hopelessness. Incels are mentally trapped in a community of guys who constantly gas each other up about how worthless they are and how they're going to die alone without ever feeling intimacy. They prefer to wallow in misery because it's easier to externalize their problems and blame it on things outside of their control like losing the genetic lottery. However, their basic assumptions about women are obviously wrong. Looks are NOT the only thing that matters to women. Confidence and charisma (and hygiene) are skills that can be cultivated, and they count for a lot. The only other thing that you really need in order to date is to have enough financial stability that you aren't broke. Most women aren't into NEETs. Even then, It doesn't matter too much if you're ok with having friends with benefits, since it's such a casual arrangement. Personally, my own experiences attest to this. I have several factors that most incels would conclude makes me undateable. They'd probably rate me a 3 on a good day because they're harsh af. Yet, I've never had that much of an issue finding partners whenever I've honestly tried. And that's even within the feedist community, so the idea that it's impossible to find women you're compatible with is simply untrue.

If I had to guess, I think the main issue that limits their success (before finding the incel community) is social awkwardness. I saw an incel video that they claimed was absolute proof of women's cruelty to ugly men, and it was just an awkward guy that didn't know how to have a conversation or what to say, so he tried to introduce a couple of onlyfans girls he just met to his parents WHILE THEY WERE STREAMING ON ONLYFANS. The girls couldn't stop laughing about it, and I don't blame them. Of course incels assumed they were laughing at his facial structure instead of his actions, because that's the easy way out. There's another similar issue with most of the redpill community/manosphere. They will make accurate observations, drop a few nuggets of actual wisdom, and then generalize the hell out of it and jump to some wild conclusions because of it. Like Fresh & Fit actually believe that 50% of all women are getting flown out to Dubai by their rich sugar daddies, lol. I think one of the biggest culprits in the loneliness epidemic is the apparent fact that 45% of men aged 18-25 have never approached a girl in their lives. I guess cases like Amber Heard are really spooking them that much huh? Of course it's more nuanced and complicated than that, but that's a topic for another day.

Anyway, on the trans topic, the one clarification I want to make for people is that 'transsexual' is still a valid word that a lot of trans folks self-identify as. According to them, transsexual refers to trans people who have gender dysphoria (the classic "born in the wrong body" feeling), who want to medically transition to alleviate it. 'Transgender' is more of an umbrella term that includes other subgroups such as non-binary, gender fluid, various neogenders, femboys (depending on who you ask), and yes, even guys with autogynephilia like OP. They're basically straight dudes who fetishize the idea of having a woman's body. For them, transitioning isn't a way to align their body with how they feel inside, but a way to be submerged in kink 24/7. "Gender euphoria" indeed. Some people in the trans community welcome them with open arms, while many others don't like them and want to gatekeep them. Surprise, there are some bitter divisions in the trans community, just as there are in the LGBT community as a whole. A lot of it just boils down to who gets to use what label to define themselves.

Red pill feeder here.
Back when I was in high school, I probably would have said blue pill, but I've since come to realize that having a fetish is a major enhancement to your sex life. It allows for more creative opportunities in bed beyond the boring vanilla routine, and can turn sex into a sort of adventure of self-discovery. Plus, the more intensely you're fixated on something, the more excited you'll be when you get to experience it. I honestly doubt that people who are mostly vanilla can ever experience as much pleasure as a fetishist. That being said, would I exchange being a feeder for some other kink? Probably not, because I honestly don't think it matters. Anyone with an intense fetish is going to have similar obstacles in life, like difficulty finding a partner, or lack of social acceptance. Everything's a trade-off, that's just life.

I've been to therapy for depression before. The impression I got is that it's ok to be where you are right now, because you didn't choose to struggle with these problems. If you beat yourself up over it, or try to solve everything all at once, you are likely to fail. The depression itself is going to sabotage your efforts, so getting that under control should be your #1 priority. You should focus on doing small, practical things that will alleviate your mood. Hang out outside when the weather is nice, reach out to friends (or make new ones), clean your home, etc. Sweeping lifestyle changes can wait for a while until you're able to handle them.

I'll echo what others have said already, that therapy isn't going to help you unless you can be open with your therapist, and especially about what outcome you actually want. You need to have a specific goal in mind so that you can come up with steps together to move toward it. Whether that means finding coping methods for your sexuality, or learning to embrace that side of yourself.

As people have already said, gaining weight in a healthy way is possible. It's not nearly as dire as you make it out to be. Aside from that, feedism is valid anyway because you don't owe anybody your health. We're all informed consenting adults, you are allowed to make your own decision to be happy in whichever way you want, and so are the other feedists. Many people (even outside this community) choose to take on an unhealthy or dangerous lifestyle in exchange for feeling happy and fulfilled, and that's perfectly fine because they made an informed decision for themselves. Athletes for example are at high risk of injury, especially head trauma. Some have died because of it. Yet, nobody tells them that playing sports is an unacceptable life choice.

BTW, I checked out your profile and saw that you are 5'11" and 160 lbs. That means you have a BMI of 22.3 which is considered by the CDC to be a healthy weight for an adult. If you're having problems walking, it's probably not fat related.